House in will is no longer owned

RAS

It may be better for them to do a deed of variation; that way if anything happens to the son, the gifts to his children do not count for IHT purposes. But I think the son needs to sort that out.

Yorkshireman99

SeniorSam wrote: »

DOV is not possible if beneficiaries are minors.

Sam

Sorry, I'm out of date or have memory loss. Security guy sems to know best.

With respect the grandchildren are not beneficiaries so a DOV is surely possible?

wadihalfa

Thanks everybody for your replies. I knew you wouldn't let me down.

securityguy

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

With respect the grandchildren are not beneficiaries so a DOV is surely possible?

The OP has pointed out that the grandchildren aren't minors anyway.

But just to finish this digression, Suppose there is a will with two beneficiaries, in which a distant already rich 70 year old relative is left £100 000 and the deceased's 10 year old son is left a collection of old Viz comics worth £10 at a car boot. Believing this to be wrong, the 70 year old executes a deed of variation in order to pass the £100 000 to the minor son. He uses a deed of variation as it is perfectly possible he may die within 7 years and (let us say) his estate is likely to be subject to IHT and the liability on the £100 000 would otherwise fall on his estate.

The only thing that matters in this which is affected by the son being a minor is that he has to get his Viz comics: he can't sign a piece of paper saying "thanks for the hundred grand, no need to give me the comics". He's entitled to his Buster Gonad, and can't sign that away. Were the son 20 he could use a DOV to save the postage on the comics or, informally, just say he doesn't want them; minor beneficiaries have to have their interests protected, and cannot consent to losing assets (and parents can't consent to it on their behalf: the key point is that one thing a parent cannot do on behalf of their child is agree to a DOV).

But other beneficiaries can do what they like: a DOV only requires the consent of the people whose legacies are reduced or altered in a way which is not unambiguously beneficial.

Savvy_Sue

As executor, you could point out to the son that this legacy may affect his estate should he die within seven years, but I think (and will be told if I'm wrong) that you can just get on with probate and he can do the DoV without your involvement.

getmore4less

Executors only need to be involved if there are IHT estate tax implications.

DOV are a tax savings vehicle and it would be the son that has a potential exposure.

Sea_Shell

Very Interesting thread...

Would the same thing apply if a specified house (by address), had been sold a few years previously and the money invested to pay for care, even if the money had been 'ringfenced' in a separate investment?

Again, would the will need to have stated along the lines of "Property at 123 Any Road, or any residual equity thereof" or suchlike. If no such wording....all cash in the pot!

I suppose it would be the same with any specified asset Car, Diamond Ring etc. if its not owned, as described at the time of death, it can't be passed on.

Thanks in advance of clarification.

nom_de_plume

I had power of attorney and was later executor for a relative in not dissimilar circumstances.

They had moved into full time care and I wanted to sell their property but it was to be left to someone in the will and was described by it's address.
I was advised that I could sell it and, as you say, ring fence the proceeds in such a way as to clearly identify them as representing the property. If my memory serves me correctly it was the Office of Public Guardian who advised me.

I never fully explored this option however as sadly they passed before the property was marketed.

Sea_Shell

Thanks Nom. Did you get as far as knowing if the will would have had to have been re-written though, to account for 'proceeds' rather than the home itself?

nom_de_plume

I didn't but I would hope that would not have been necessary as I doubt the relative was in a fit state mentally to rewrite their will.

If you should find yourself in this situation some sound legal advice would be worthwhile.