Council Tax, Bailiff Fees, and do I really owe them?

Maladept

Hi All

Due to my own 'later' attitude I incurred a council tax debt, which I simply kept meaning to pay later - eventually a debt collection agency (Jacobs) became involved.

I have paid the amount owing to the local council directly, via their website, without engaging in any way with Jacobs Enforcement Agents.

However the Agents are still pursuing me for their 'fees' so my question is simple: Do I need to pay them?

I concede I may have tried to be too clever in not interacting with the Agents and will have to admit defeat, but I'd rather not...

My local CAB was less than convincing when saying I ought to pay, giving no concrete logic or reasoning as to why I do owe them money, so I'm asking here.

Conversely, if the Agents haven't in fact directly 'earned' their fee, how do I get them to back off?

Today I received a hand delivered notice of removal, so advice on that also would be appreciated - as I understand it, they can't simply force entry for my stuff as they have no notice of seeking possession in force.

Thanks in advance for any advice, even if it's not the answer I'm hoping for

Adam

sourcrates

Hi,

Paying the liability direct with the council using whatever steps are needed DOES NOT revoke bailiffs fees that have been incurred up to that point - but,

If a bailiff wants to recover his fees incurred up to and including the point at which the debt was paid direct to the council, he must take a new civil action against you under Section 92(8) of the Courts Act 2003. He cannot simply threaten you with removing goods or vehicles.
This is because the original warrant (authorising the bailiff to take control of goods) dies upon payment of the sum printed on it.

So unless they take you to court themselves, they are stuffed basically.

HappyMJ

The reply from sourcrates is correct from my point of view too.

You owe the money....but...if you don't pay it they have to take further action and in my experience with them they don't. If you paid the outstanding CT in full they might think you have some money and can afford to pay the fees so they might take further action. I did not pay the CT when the warrant was returned to council so it appeared to them that I did not have the money to pay so that may be why they didn't bother chasing. There's no point trying to chase someone who appears to have nothing.

fatbelly

Maladept wrote: »

Thanks in advance for any advice, even if it's not the answer I'm hoping for

Adam

This is not the answer you were hoping for

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/news/bailiff-fees-when-paying-the-council-or-court-direct

Herbie21

fatbelly wrote: »

This is not the answer you were hoping for

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/news/bailiff-fees-when-paying-the-council-or-court-direct

The above link may not be the answer that he was hoping for but it is nonetheless an accurate one.

A year or so ago many local authorities were confused as to how to deal with 'direct' payments but within the past 6 months, most local authorities now understand how the 'pro rata' distribution of direct payments works.

Bailiff Advice Online.

Maladept

fatbelly wrote: »

This is not the answer you were hoping for

(link removed cos i'm new and not allowed them which is why my first post disappeared I presume) QUOTE]

I thought I'd replied to this but it seems to have disappeared...

Thank you for the link, this is the kind of detail I was looking for - good or bad.

If I understand correctly from the replies though, I may not owe the £235 enforcement fee, as by this point the original debt has been settled, leaving me with the initial £75 outstanding at most and the enforcement agents currently having no actual power to take my goods (even though that's exactly what they are claiming they will do).

Thanks all for your input, it is very much appreciated - the big lesson is, don't procrastinate on paying your bills .

Karonher

Not wishing to worry you more but would the hand delivered letter not count as contact on their part?


Also, if a payment is made direct to the magistrate court (or the local authority) it may take between 5-7 days to process and could lead to an enforcement visit being made which will increase the debt by another £235.

Maladept

Karonher wrote: »

Not wishing to worry you more but would the hand delivered letter not count as contact on their part?


Also, if a payment is made direct to the magistrate court (or the local authority) it may take between 5-7 days to process and could lead to an enforcement visit being made which will increase the debt by another £235.

Looking back through my paperwork etc The first visit to my home occurred 15 days after I'd paid off the debt to the council.

I sent a text message to the number on the letter that had been left to the effect that I'd paid the council and did not believe I owed anyone anything further - the almost immediate response was that the agent knew i'd paid off the council tax debt but they still wanted their fees.

I didn't engage with them after that, thinking they were just trying to push me for money they hadn't 'earned' as it were.

This was before Christmas - fast forward to today with no other contact in between by either party, and another letter from the agent threatening to remove my goods, which is what prompted me to look today for a forum that could give me solid advice on the matter - which you all have .

CIS

Herbie21 wrote: »

The above link may not be the answer that he was hoping for but it is nonetheless an accurate one.

A year or so ago many local authorities were confused as to how to deal with 'direct' payments but within the past 6 months, most local authorities now understand how the 'pro rata' distribution of direct payments works.

Bailiff Advice Online.

I was just about to say the same. Many people have been caught out with trying an outstanding amount of CTax (ignoring the fees) and then finding it has been apportioned and that CTax is still due.

National_Debtline

Maladept wrote: »

Due to my own 'later' attitude I incurred a council tax debt, which I simply kept meaning to pay later - eventually a debt collection agency (Jacobs) became involved.

I have paid the amount owing to the local council directly, via their website, without engaging in any way with Jacobs Enforcement Agents.

Hi Adam,

When the bailiffs are given a debt to enforce they must first issue a Notice of Enforcement. Under the legislation, they are able to charge a £75 Compliance fee for this notice. This fee is legally due as part of the debt from that point. Because you paid the council after they sent you this letter, their fee became legally due, and it is must be paid. The money would have been distributed between the council tax debt and their fees.

That means there was still some council tax owing when Jacobs visited you (so they were within their rights to keep enforcing the debt). When bailiffs visit they are allowed to charge a £235 Enforcement fee, which is also now legally due. In order to stop Jacobs chasing you, you will need to pay the £310 outstanding. If you cannot do that in a lump sum then you can seek further advice about negotiating instalments.

Make sure you keep your home locked and secure and do not let them in (and hide anything valuable outside your home). If the bailiffs have been inside your home or you have signed a Controlled Goods Agreement you should seek further advice immediately. Good Luck,


Laura
@natdebtline

Oldwood

Herbie21 wrote: »

The above link may not be the answer that he was hoping for but it is nonetheless an accurate one.

A year or so ago many local authorities were confused as to how to deal with 'direct' payments but within the past 6 months, most local authorities now understand how the 'pro rata' distribution of direct payments works.

Bailiff Advice Online.

Why do I keep finding these? Herbie, you know full well that the pro-rata split can only come into force after the bailiff has taken control of goods and sold them. This is explained perfectly well in the legislation.