Scottish Power Bill Help

CashStrapped

No, the BT sockets will not use much power.

As I said, those calculations are based on those Jan readings being correct readings. That is also why you use actual ones and not estimates in any calculations.

It is heating, either hot water immersion or radiators that will be the culprit.

What is their current set-up in terms of heating, hot water and controls?

What type of property is it?

Richie7

CashStrapped wrote: »

No, the BT sockets will not use much power.

As I said, those calculations are based on those Jan readings being correct readings. That is also why you use actual ones and not estimates in any calculations.

It is heating, either hot water immersion or radiators that will be the culprit.

What is their current set-up in terms of heating, hot water and controls?

What type of property is it?

Sorry for my delay in replying, I get on when I can.


It's a semi-detached, and as you know there's no central heating, just storage heaters that run on the Economy 7.


Hot Water is obtained by use of a thermostat, that heats the water in the immersion. This is used occasionally during the day, then mainly at night for a shower or bath. But before the Economy 7 kicks in I realise now.


Not sure how it was ever set-up like this, I think it has just been this way since they moved in, some 40 years ago.

[Deleted User]

Its not common to see an Eco 7 user with a higher high rate total than the low rate although one or both the readings could ve gone round the clock.Scottish Power are the only supplier we read meters for who actually ask us to check that we get rate 1/ rate 2 in the right order.
Nearly all true night storage users have a higher low rate use than the day rate, 60%/40% sort of average. If customers are mis billed then presented with a big catch up bill its possible to get them to either scrub the diffeernce or lower it if its their fault which it usually is. We re still messing it up now for BG EDF and Scot Power because our meter readers in our area ( S.Yorks ) will routinely send rate 1 reads into the night rate even tho in fact its day rate. Switching from Scot Power is nt the answer. Their rates are pretty good.

CashStrapped

Based on what sacsquacco says, I would do an immediate meter test to determine which meter readings have been given for which rate.

If somehow the meter readers and your parents have got them the wrong way round then that explains the odd % split.

To test it you need to go to your parents house during the off peak hours, put the immersion booster on and check which meter is counting numbers fast. That will identify the meter for peak use. Don't forget to turn the immersion boost off again!

Then match the current meter reading to those on the bill. This will confirm if the peak meter has somehow been identified as the off peak meter on the bills.

If they have been swapped on the bills, you need to try and how out how far back this may have happened.

You then need to identify how the immersion and storage heaters are being operated. Is the hot water tank well insulated? How hot does the hot water get? Do they use an immersion boost during the day? Is the off peak immersion coming on correctly at night? There should be two immersions going into the hot water tank. One at the top and one at the bottom, is this the case?

Checking all these things could help lower bills a lot.

Regarding the high total usage. As your parents live in a semi detached house, depending on the level of insulation (windows, roof, walls etc), this could just be the best usage you could expect form the type of property. That's why you need to go through how everything is used just to be sure.

Richie7

Thanks again guys for the replies.


I'm just totally flummoxed by the whole thing to be honest. I am beginning to wonder if the whole wiring setup in the house is goosed. Nothing is making any sense at all - and I'm now beginning to seriously consider that there is something faulty somewhere. Or at least a faulty item using way too much than it should. The amount of electricity usage on the day rate is just bordering on the ridiculous.


I did check the bills, and they do tally up with the readings. What I will do as suggested is check the meter's of a night with the immersion etc on, and see what's happenings on the meter's.


The immersion is just placed on here and there throughout the day for hot water, but never normally longer than 15/20 mins at a time. And only a few times a day really.


What is so puzzling is nothing has actually changed in terms of my parents usage. So the astronomical hike in cost per month is what I need to get to the bottom of too.

sacsquacco wrote: »

Its not common to see an Eco 7 user with a higher high rate total than the low rate although one or both the readings could ve gone round the clock.Scottish Power are the only supplier we read meters for who actually ask us to check that we get rate 1/ rate 2 in the right order.
Nearly all true night storage users have a higher low rate use than the day rate, 60%/40% sort of average. If customers are mis billed then presented with a big catch up bill its possible to get them to either scrub the diffeernce or lower it if its their fault which it usually is. We re still messing it up now for BG EDF and Scot Power because our meter readers in our area ( S.Yorks ) will routinely send rate 1 reads into the night rate even tho in fact its day rate. Switching from Scot Power is nt the answer. Their rates are pretty good.

I'm actually a little confused by this. Surely the day rate has to be higher than the night rate for most of the year, as the heaters will be off for a large chunk of the year. So the off-peak meter will technically be out of use then surely?

CashStrapped

Richie7 wrote: »

I'm actually a little confused by this. Surely the day rate has to be higher than the night rate for most of the year, as the heaters will be off for a large chunk of the year. So the off-peak meter will technically be out of use then surely?

Heating makes up the vast majority of electricity use for the year. Hot water is a much smaller componant. Also remember that in the colder months (similar time to heating use), the temperature of the water is colder so it will take more energy to heat the water in the tank. So winter usage makes up the majority of your annual use.

As all heating and hot water should be done on the E7 rates/times, that is why you should be able to achieve 60% night (off peak) use and 40% (peak) day use. Your parents usage is the wrong way round! This is either down to a meter mix up or appliance use at the wrong times.

You should not really be using the day immersion at all, only for a quick top up. This could be one contributor to the high usage.

This is what you need to clarify.

1. Put the immersion on during the day (briefly) and see which meter is spinning like crazy. Whatever meter does this is the day (peak) meter. (I said off peak in the post above and I ment peak. The peak times will be easier to test so just do it during the day sometime)

2. Ensure this tallys to the day (peak) meter on the bills.

3. Look at the hot water cylinder. Is it well insulated? Identify how many immersion elements are going into it. Just one going in at the top? Or two? One at the bottom and top? The hot water should only be heating at night and the boost used very little, if at all, during the day.

4. Regardless of the above, switch on to scottish powers current April 2017 deal. As they are already with SP the switch will be immediate and they should automatically lower the DD. If you compare using the figures I calculated in an earlier post, their tariff still seems competative for their use. However you need to check your area.

If you are still confused it may be worth getting a qualified electricien in to go over the set-up wth you.

Richie7

I will definitely be checking as you say. And I think I'll be calling in an electrician as well. I need to get to the bottom of it all.


When I know for sure I'll post on here, but I think the Immersion is just on the peak meter, whatever time of day it is. As is everything else. The only thing the off peak meter is for are the storage heaters. That's why the peak rate is so high and showing as the predominant meter use. As it always is.


I think the whole house was just wired horrendously poorly back when it was done. Whose to blame for that, I have no idea?


Thanks for your continuing assistance. It's a shame I never really looked into this years ago. You just kind of accept when you're growing up that your parents are on top of things like this. Clearly not always the case!!

Richie7

I thought I'd just give you an update - and ask for some opinions again too if you don't mind.

It turns out that no matter what time of day the immersion is put on, it is accruing on the "peak" meter. Even during the off peak time period. I have yet to speak to Scottish Power regarding this (i will be), but I'm pretty sure they have made a terrible error.

So the ramifications of this would appear to be that my parents have been paying for peak rate electricity when it should have been off-peak? And I have no idea how many years this has been for.

I am sure this is in breach of their contract, which is an "Off Peak E" one I'm led to believe. That is meant to include water heating on Economy 7. But clearly is not in this case.

Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this new information.

Thanks as always.


Rich.

CashStrapped

Thanks for the update. It is nice when people actually report back and update us as to what has happened.

It sounds like something has gone wrong with your E7 timer or switch or that there is an issue with the wiring.

However....surely the off peak must be working for some items as the reading would have just stayed the same for years if not, that would have been spotted long ago. Are the storage heaters correctly working on off peak?

If it is just the immersion heater that it using peak all the time, it may be wired in wrong. The odd thing is that normally, once the meter switches to off peak, everything that is used should be off peak. However, there are a variety of E7 set-ups and timer switch solutions so it could be possible.

If the issue turns out to be the meter and timer it would be down to Scottish power to repair/replace. If it is to do with the wiring of the house, then it will be for your parents to get an electrician in to work out what the issue is.

Does the hot water cylinder have two immersion points? One at the bottom and one at the top?

You may want to get an electrician (you said you would...did you?) to give everything the once over anyway. They can then advise as to what is wired up where and how. You may want to get a electrical condition report to assess everything.

That should clarify what is going on and stop all the head scratching. It sounds like it is what you need to do at this stage.

ToomanyPies

A clear photo of the meter and associated cabling and time clock might be helpful.

Do you have online access to the account? If not then I would register with Scottish Power asap as it will give you access to the old bills and an easy means of switching tarrif. While you are investigating the issues get them onto the April 2017 v2 tarrif and start saving.

You may also consider installing a Loop energy saver (Google your-loop ). I have them fitted to three properties so I can keep an eye my own and two relatives energy consumptions. You will be able to see remotely when the storage heaters are being charged. (I have no connection with the company, just a happy customer)

You have been given some great advice and I'm sure you will work it out soon.