Being charged for care - please help

Mark_b_2

Thank you very much for everyones advice, it has been passed on and discussed with mother!

An unanswered question

Ohtoobedebtfree wrote: »

Also how old are you as if you are an dependent student(under 25 years) the law might allow him to make parental contributions to cover your uni & living costs.

I'm 21! Where would I find out about this?

Does anyone know who I should ask about this?:D

Savvy_Sue

Might be worth asking on the student board about that, or once you're back at Uni going to see whoever advises on student finance. They may have to do some digging as it's not a terribly common problem, but that's their job! also Age Concern or Welfare Rights advisers.

monkeyspanner

Mark_b wrote: »

Mojisola - What would Power of Attorney allow me to do? (i did try searching, but I dont exactly get it)

An enduring power of attorney would allow you to deal with your Dad's financial affairs e.g. benefits, bank a/c's etc. and act on his behalf, without one I am afraid you will run into all sorts of difficulties trying to sort out anything as most financial organisations will simply refuse to disclose information to you never mind taking instructions from you.

The process and legislation behind the setting up of a power of attorney will change from 1 October and the cost will increase from about £120-£150 to £800+. From what you have said about your Dad I wonder whether he would be able to convince a solicitor that he is capable of understanding and making the decision to give you POA status and if he can't then the solicitor will not let him sign.

If this is the case then it might be suggested you apply to the court of protection. I think most people would say avoid that at all costs as it could take matters completely out of your hands and your Dad could well have someone appointed by the court he does not know and in addition have to pay for his services. Essentially it should only to be used as a last resort if your Dad needs protecting against himself.

Errata

If this is the case then it might be suggested you apply to the court of protection. I think most people would say avoid that at all costs as it could take matters completely out of your hands and your Dad could well have someone appointed by the court he does not know and in addition have to pay for his services. Essentially it should only to be used as a last resort if your Dad needs protecting against himself

This can be the case, but not always. The Court was happy to appoint our family solicitor as my mum's guardian, as this was the best solution.

Savvy_Sue

Yes, I thought that if someone applied to the CofP offering to be someone's guardian, there would have to be a good reason for them NOT to be appointed - obviously after their suitability has been established.

Nigel1

Having searched for information on IHT and come across this thread, it rang alarm bells regarding our situation. I hope Mark-b resolved his issues, so I am adding to this thread rather than start a new one due to some similarities.

My father has had a stroke and is already in hospital for assessment but it's likely he will need to go into a EMI (Elderly mentally infirm) home. On the assumption that he will have to pay for that (although we are looking into this given recent legal cases), we also assume we will have to sell his house for him. He/we are fortunate compared to Mark-b's case in that we think it is worth about £200K, and he also has other assets worth c.£40K. My sister and I had assumed that we would put all this money into several high interest bank accounts in his name to preserve it for as long as possible (which should hopefully last for over 10 years, depending on the cost of care) but at the same time, we had assumed we could transfer £3000 p.a. to us as tax-free gift, which is what he wants. We have Enduring Power of Attorney which we are getting registered (at £120 - more than a week's old age pension! But that's another issue).

Having now seen the information earlier in this thread on intentional deprivation of assets, would our plan fall foul of this, given the amounts and timescales?
Thanks

Nigel1

Thanks Margaret. I've tried to leave out all the emotions, the legal possibilities and irritating cost of just registering a EPA from the post. Yes, all other issues will be looked into, but I'm hoping here for some guidance based on the worst-case scenario.
Cheers
Nigel

Biggles

You won't fall foul of the rules on 'deprivation of assets', as that really only cuts in if it reduces his assets below the level at which local council assistance comes in and that wouldn't seem to apply.

But you should be careful about gifts given under power of attorney, especially if you are now getting it registered (the difference being that before registration is necessary, the donor is making the decisions, but when registration has become necessary, the attorney will have the power to actually make the decisions himself). The Public Guardian's Office apparently look very hard at these, it might be best to ring them first, I understand they are very helpful.

I echo Margaret's suggestion that you would do far better with an 'immediate needs annuity' than putting money in savings accounts. Start here www.nhfa.co.uk, they are the leading specialists in the field.

Biggles

Incidentally, the main thing about gifts of £3,000 was that they could be used to reduce the risk of IHT: by being gifted each year, they could be ignored from an IHT point of view but would reduce the overall liability on death.

In this case, IHT won't be a factor, so I believe he is free to give you as much or as little as he wishes (subject to the above comments on the Public Guardian's Office) without affecting tax at all.

monkeyspanner

Hi Nigel
Having just been through the initial stages of this process here are some pointers.

When your Dad is about to be discharged from hospital make sure a Continuing Care assessment is done. Continuing Care is assessed on the basis of your Dad's primary need being medical rather than domestic. If sucessful the local NHS PCT have to pick up the total cost of your Dad's care irrespective of his savings or income. As you can imagine they will be reluctant to give you this without a fight.

As your Dad has more than £21500 in savings other than his property he will not be eligable for the 12 week disregard assistance which is available whilst selling a property to fund care.

Is he in receipt of attendance allowance this is a non-means tested weekly allowance paid in one of 2 levels the higher of which is £64.50?

You will need to distinguish between the gift allowances for IHT purposes and your position as executors and 'deliberate deprivation of assets'. Any gifts which the council deem as deprivation of assets will probably be added back onto his assets for assessment purposes. There are also accounting requirements on POA once this has been registered.

If/when your Dad's assets reduce to £21500 he should be eligable for council assistance if his income(minus a weekly expenses allowance of £20.45) is less than his care home fees. It is worth bearing in mind that an assessment is done on part of his savings under £21500 where a notional income is added onto his actual income. I think this notional income is £1/week for every £500 in savings between £21500 and around £11000. There should also be an allowance made for I think 10% of the house sale price to cover expenses but I am not certain how this works. For further details of this have a look at the very good fact sheets on this site www.counselandcare.org.uk

We were advised by the pension service to approach them when savings reduce to around £70,000 to get an assessment for income support which could be available at that level of savings.

Hope this is helpful and good luck.