Handling the estate after death

getmore4less

Unless a newer form has something you need old forms are probably ok.

tiger305

Thanks all - thats sort of fallen into place as the date on the 12 pager is 26 Feb 2016 - must be the new form.
Also if I may - there is a question about the deceased (my Mum) having surviving brothers/sisters etc. I know she had 3 brothers who all passed a few years back. Then it asks about children of the brother/sisters who are still alive. (I've tried to copy/paste below)

5.2e Whole-blood brothers or sisters who survived the deceased person Nil
5.2f Whole-blood brothers or sisters who did not survive the deceased person 3
5.2g Children of people at 5.2f who survived the deceased person (see note)

Note - I know of 4 but we have no contact. One of Mum's brothers moved to Sth Africa after WW2 and only came back once (I didn't meet him) and I have no idea of any children.

What is the relevance for these questions ??

Thanks

Savvy_Sue

Slightly confused: are tommytynan (the OP) and tiger one and the same?

If there's a will, the questions probably don't have much relevance, but could become relevant if one of the named beneficiaries had pre-deceased the testator. At that point, unless specific instructions were given in the will, the laws of intestacy would come into play, and they are based on blood relationships.

I'd give the information you gave above, for completeness.

tommytynan123

Thanks Savvy Sue - yep tommytynan and tiger305 are me - not sure why log-in seems to fluctuate between the 2??
I did talk to the helpline about the brothers / sisters etc and was told that if you can't find out then put what you know. Also told that at present use either 4 or 12 page form.

I've started the IHT205 as I know the estate will not reach £325K (estimating at £290K) but then reached this question:

6 Did the deceased pay premiums on any life insurance policies that were not for their own benefit or did not pay out to the estate, and did they buy an annuity at any time? Ignore any policies paid out to a surviving spouse or civil partner
No Yes ? If you answered Yes, stop filling in this form. You will need to fill in form IHT400

Mother had an annuity bought some years back in which she invested about £30K (still waiting for accurate figure of todays worth) and was drawing £100 per month income. As above - does that mean I have to now be using IHT400 even though I know the total will be under the threshold.
Thanks

getmore4less

IHT400 and suppliments are not that bad, you only use the ones you need and some are really simple.

Best to read up more on the annuity situation or give HMRC a call.
there is probably more info in the help doc or on the relevent IHT400 page.

I think the first part is because they are gifts(paying premiums for someone else to benefit).

FreeBear

tommytynan123 wrote: »

6 Did the deceased pay premiums on any life insurance policies that were not for their own benefit or did not pay out to the estate, and did they buy an annuity at any time? Ignore any policies paid out to a surviving spouse or civil partner
No Yes ? If you answered Yes, stop filling in this form. You will need to fill in form IHT400

Mother had an annuity bought some years back in which she invested about £30K (still waiting for accurate figure of todays worth) and was drawing £100 per month income. As above - does that mean I have to now be using IHT400 even though I know the total will be under the threshold.

The way I read the question is if the payments from the annuity were made directly to the deceased (or a surviving spouse/partner), then the answer would be No.

getmore4less

read the notes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/459094/150717_final_version_IHT206_2011_.pdf

Question 6
Insurance premiums
If the deceased was paying insurance premiums
on a policy that will pay out to someone else, you
may need to take the premiums paid into account
as gifts. You can answer ‘No’ to this question if
the policy was for the benefit of the deceased's
spouse or civil partner.
Where the deceased was paying premiums on an
insurance policy for the benefit of someone else,
you can answer ‘No’ to question 6 if:
• the insurance policy is not held in trust
• the premiums paid each year are covered by
the exemption for regular gifts out of income
(limited to £3,000 for each tax year)
• they did not buy an annuity at any time
If the insurance policy is not held in trust and
the premiums are not covered by the exemption,
then each premium is a gift of cash. You can
answer ‘No’ to question 6 but you must take the
premiums into account in answer to question 2.
You can also answer ‘No’ to question 6 if:
• the insurance policy is held in trust (this will be
the most common case)
• it was put into trust more than 7 years ago
• the premiums paid each year are covered by the
exemption for regular gifts out of income
• they did not buy an annuity at any time
If the insurance policy is held in trust, and it
was put into trust more than 7 years ago, but
the premiums are not covered by the exemption,
then each premium is a gift of cash. You may
answer ‘No’ to question 6 but you must take the
premiums into account in answer to question 2.
In any other case, for example, where the policy
was put into trust within 7 years of the
death, or if the deceased both paid premiums
on a life insurance policy that was not for their
own benefit or paid out to the estate and they
bought an annuity at any time, you must answer
‘Yes’ to question 6 and stop filling in form
IHT205(2011) now – you will need to fill in
form IHT400 instead

then page 3 and 4 of this
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/497875/IHT410.pdf

tommytynan123

Thanks all. The ''product'' in question is called a 'Personal Investment plan'' and Mum put in £30K and drew £100 pcm. Initial discussions with the Halifax (although the final plan was actually with someone else via the Halifax) suggest it will still be worth £30K +/- a few hundred. I'll read through the notes thanks

getmore4less

I would check what sort of product,

it may not be an anuity at all but a investment vehicle more like stocks, shares, bonds, unit trust, OEIC...

That will be different pages of IHT400.

tommytynan123

Probate moving along nicely now with your help - thanks.
One Bank do not need probate to release the funds (£30K) but have asked for the original will or a certified copy. Probate office needs the original. I'm aware that the probate office can issue certified copies but can a local solicitor also do that? Also thinking of asking them if I can take the original into a local branch to get it certified and copied before forwarding. Anyone know if that may work.
Thanks