Advice please - adding a person to prperty title deeds

cte1111

SeniorSam wrote: »

Cte111
I also find it difficult to see that you understand the position in this case. These circumstances would be perfectly acceptable in view of mothers situation. On her death the daughter has the property in her name and saves costs that a solicitor would love to enjoy. Advice in this forum does seem to lean towards ensuring that solicitors get plenty of business, when the client can be saved the costs. My few words are intended to be helpful and are not advice.

The Daughter is the sole beneficiary in the Will.

The Mother is terminally ill.

The Daughter is aware of financial position of both and aware of risks if any.

Capital Gains would be very small, but would doubt if any at all above CGT allowance the daughter would have.

There is no intention of avoiding the value of the home in mothers estate, or in claiming benefits from the State.

How is mother to meet a new partner and marry in her state?.

Cte111, not everything is in black and white. Sometimes circumstances will alter a situation and any guidance should take account of that.

'It is for the Mother's peace of mind while she is still here, knowing that she has things how she wants them'.


Sam

Why do you presume that transferring a property after death would require a solicitor, but would not do so before death? Unless the daughter wants to live there, it seems likely that the house would be sold ultimately, and the house can remain in the deceased' name until the sale goes through. This saves on the hassle and fees for transferring it temporarily to joint names as suggested.

It is also possible to meet a new partner, even if you are old or unwell. Not everything is black and white you know SailorSam.

How do we know that there is no intention of avoiding paying for care costs? It's difficult to see any other potential reason for transferring a property to someone who does not live there. Perhaps you could name one for us all?

TBagpuss

OP, putting the property into the joint names of you and your mum isn't particularly complex. As others have said, it would not prevent claims being made for costs of care if that were to become necessary, but it doesn't sound as though that is your, or your mum's, motivation.

It could disadvantage you if you needed to claim benefits or in the event of you divorcing. It would be possible to protect your mum to some extent by having a declaration of trust drawn up explicitly stating that she has the right to occupy the property until her death, which would protect her in the event that you, or anyone claiming through you (such as a spouse if you divorced, or a creditor if you went bankrupt) wanted to sell the property.

As the house would not be your first home you would be liable to pay capital gains tax on any increase in the value of you share of the property between the date it is transferred to you and the date it is sold / disposed of . Obviously this is likely to be more of an issue the longer your mum survives.

As I understand it, neither you nor your mum will have to pay Stamp Duty as the transfer would be a gift, and there is no mortgage, however, I *think* that if you later sell your own home and buy a new one, you may be caught by the new rules about higher stamp duty on 2nd homes/buy-to-lets, as you would then be buying a property while already owning one.

Although you could deal with the transaction yourself, it might be sensible to arrange for your mum to see a solicitor (ideally one who is a member of STEP and Solicitors for the Elderly) so that you have evidence that your mum was acting on her own initiative and that she fully understood what she was doing (perhaps particularly important if there are any other family members who might question whether it is in your mum's best interests.) Also, it may be easier for your mum to have a solicitor act for her than to have to try to attend at the Land Registry to get her ID checked - getting an ID1 signed off can be tricky as many solicitors will not sign these as it exposes them to risk.

solentsusie

SeniorSam wrote: »

Cte111
I also find it difficult to see that you understand the position in this case. These circumstances would be perfectly acceptable in view of mothers situation. On her death the daughter has the property in her name and saves costs that a solicitor would love to enjoy. Advice in this forum does seem to lean towards ensuring that solicitors get plenty of business, when the client can be saved the costs. My few words are intended to be helpful and are not advice.

If the property is in joint names then on my mothers death the process for transferring the property into a sole name if both are on the title deeds is extremely simple. From conversations with my mother, she wishes to avoid paying solicitors any more money than is necessary in this situation as she has had this problem with the title deeds come up a couple of times in the light of deaths of family members. The Land Registry also has a very helpful video that explains the reasons why people transfer property into joint names. As there is no mortgage involved this is a very simple process.

The Daughter is the sole beneficiary in the Will.

Yes, sole beneficiary of will written by a solicitor within the past year.

The Mother is terminally ill.

Yes, she has terminal cancer but not at deaths door quite yet and she wants to ensure her affairs are as she wishes them.

The Daughter is aware of financial position of both and aware of risks if any.

Capital Gains would be very small, but would doubt if any at all above CGT allowance the daughter would have.

There is no intention of avoiding the value of the home in mothers estate, or in claiming benefits from the State.

My mother is not entitled to claim any benefits from the state as her personal income is too high. In the event of my mother needing additional care I would pay for any additional costs on top of her income if necessary. I would also move back into the family home to care for her should her condition deteriorate.

How is mother to meet a new partner and marry in her state?.

My father died 29 years ago, my mother has never had any inclination to remarry or find another partner and it is certainly not top of her list now.

Cte111, not everything is in black and white. Sometimes circumstances will alter a situation and any guidance should take account of that.

'It is for the Mother's peace of mind while she is still here, knowing that she has things how she wants them'.

Exactly. This is not about 'avoidance' of paying any kinds of inheritance taxes or claiming any benefits from the state but about her personal wishes.

Sam

Thanks Sam, you seem to have read my initial post most accurately.

solentsusie

cte1111 wrote: »

Why do you presume that transferring a property after death would require a solicitor, but would not do so before death? Unless the daughter wants to live there, it seems likely that the house would be sold ultimately, and the house can remain in the deceased' name until the sale goes through. This saves on the hassle and fees for transferring it temporarily to joint names as suggested.

You do not need a solicitor to add a person to a title deed. Both of you can visit a Land Registry department or have documents witnessed by a notary and this is much cheaper than dealing with solicitors. I suspect that I would live at the property after my mother's death if I did not move back in before then to care for her. I have no intention of selling the property, and have not in my post made any indication of my intention to do this.

It is also possible to meet a new partner, even if you are old or unwell. Not everything is black and white you know SailorSam.

My father died 29 years ago and my mother has never felt any inclination to remarry and it is not top of her 'to do' list now.

How do we know that there is no intention of avoiding paying for care costs? It's difficult to see any other potential reason for transferring a property to someone who does not live there. Perhaps you could name one for us all?

The property is not being 'transferred' but another person is being added to the title deeds, if there were any care costs these could still be claimed against her estate. As I have stated, my mother is terminally ill, she will not go into residential care and will be cared for at home. If any care is required and there are any costs over and above those that can be paid for within her income then I will meet these personally. I will also move back into my family home to care for her. This may shock you but not everyone is out to screw the system over.

As I have stated, these are her personal wishes, nothing to do with avoiding taxes or claiming benefits from the state.

Comments above.

solentsusie

FreeBear wrote: »

If the property is currently unregistered with the Land Registry, doing the paperwork now will certainly save time and money at a later date.

Property is currently registered in my mother's name only now we have removed all of the deceased relatives.

solentsusie

Mojisola wrote: »

I think it would be sensible to change ownership now to joint tenants but I'm not sure it would save money. There will be a payment now for the change to two names and another payment afterwards to remove the mother's name.

If the rest of the estate will be small, changing the house ownership now could mean that the estate doesn't need to go to probate which would make life easier.

There is a small payment to add a person to a title deed.


There is no payment required to remove a person from a title deed - unless you use a solicitor of course - which is what my mother wishes to avoid.

solentsusie

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Exactly what was your uncle's interest in the property before he died? Are you absolutely sure nobody else inherited his interest?

My uncle lived with my mother and father all of his life. When my father died, my uncle (who was my father's brother), still lived with my mother until his death. He was a bachelor and had no dependents. His estate went to my mother.


The title deeds for the house should have been transferred solely into my mothers name 21 years ago by the solicitor dealing with his estate. This didn't happen, even though we have paperwork stating this had been applied for. So my mother wants to ensure, for her peace of mind, that everything is in order and how she wants it when she dies.

cte1111

I didn't say you were out to screw the system solentsusie, it's quite offensive that you would imply that I had stated this. If you already know it all, then why did you post for advice?

I am aware that transferring a property does not need a solicitor, apart from to witness ID. We did the same ourselves, however I was responding to another poster who incorrectly stated that my advice would cost solicitors fees. Evidently you are going to contradict and belittle anyone who doesn't agree with you, so I expect you will do the same to this post.

I hope your mother is able to have her remaining time in peace at home as you both wish. I would say that sometimes this plan isnt always possible and hope you are able to consider other options, if necessary.

I have a friend who like your mum thought he would never remarry so passed his house to his daughter via a trust. He then unexpectedly met someone he wanted to marry. She had no security in the house in which they lived. It cost a lot in solicitors fees one way or another. Life does change, we were trying to help you and your mum ensure that you know about all the possibilities.