PCN from Smart Parkign @ Sports Direct Darlington

Ketch1983

Hi All,

I've been reading through all the comments and posts and still not sure if i have any grounds for an appeal.
I have just revived a PCN from sports direct in Darlington with my car reg being photographed on entering and exiting the car park.
Basically i didn't know that it was a pay and display car park, and didn't see the signage on entering because it was dark and the car park was poorly lit. I did shop at SD, although i don't think that counts for anything.
I was considering appealing but really not sure if i have a case! Do you think it would be worth pursing on the basis that the car park has no lighting and the signage was not illuminated?

Redx

yes, everybody normally has a case which includes what you said and much, much more

the only thread you need to do is read the NEWBIES thread near the top of this forum , then follow the BPA advice in there, appeal with the blue text template letter, then take it to popla

Coupon-mad

Ketch1983 wrote: »

I was considering appealing but really not sure if i have a case!

Same question, different PPC, makes no odds:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5410654

Do I have grounds to appeal? is not a question needing to be asked. Please read the NEWBIES thread, see you at POPLA stage.

You, your extended family and your friends etc should all be signing this petition

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925

...if you haven't all done so already!

Ketch1983

Thanks Guys,

I have and had previously read through the Newbie sections before i posted, but i was still unsure hence posting. As i can see there are hundreds of responses on this feed so i can understand the annoyance at getting the same questions.

I haven't yet responded/appealed yet but i'm going to. I'm in the process of building my evidence up based on some facts and standards on the car park for the popla.

Basically i was more unsure about what would be the outcome on losing the popla appeal, and i was concerned that i would end up with a bigger bill at the end of it. If i just end up with the original fine then there is no harm in fighting and going through the hassle.

The car is also a company car so i was concerned that i would be named as the driver and wanted to understand my rights.

Edna_Basher

Ketch1983 wrote: »

The car is also a company car.

Hi Ketch1983

Don't worry about losing at POPLA; with the assistance you'll receive from this Forum, that's not going to happen. In fact, I recently helped a work colleague get a Smart PCN from Sports Direct Darlington cancelled without even having to go through the hassle of POPLA.

I assume that you received Smart's PCN in the post? If so, who is the car's registered keeper - you or your company?

If you're the registered keeper, Smart will have sent you the PCN as a Notice to Keeper having obtained your details from the DVLA. There'd be no need to involve your company at all.

However, if your company is the registered keeper, they will have already received a PCN from Smart. Your company must have then provided Smart with your details as the car's driver (or keeper if you're lucky).

A little extra information about your case would be useful.

For example:

What was the date of issue of the PCN and when did the alleged incident take place?

Is the PCN addressed to you as a Notice to Keeper / Notice to Owner or does it claim that you were driving the car?

Ketch1983

Thanks Edna,

The company are the registered keepers and there name and address is on the letter head. They have then forwarded on the PCN but so far have not given Smart Parking my details. does this make life more difficult?

The date of issue was the 05/02/16, and i didn't receive the letter from my company until the 10/02/16. Does this matter?

Fruitcake

Ketch1983 wrote: »

Thanks Edna,

The company are the registered keepers and there name and address is on the letter head. They have then forwarded on the PCN but so far have not given Smart Parking my details. does this make life more difficult?

The date of issue was the 05/02/16, and i didn't receive the letter from my company until the 10/02/16. Does this matter?

No. On the contrary it is very good news. Send the BPA template in blue from the NEWBIES thread exactly as it is. Also tell your company you are dealing with this and therefore they do not need to get involved. Point out that as you are appealing, the company must not pay this charge on your behalf.
Tell your company this in writing or by email and keeping a screenshot. A read receipt would be a good idea if available.


I don't think the dates matter, but you should thank the company employee that passed the PCN to you and not ignored it or paid it.

Ketch1983

Proposed first appeal, I'm open to any advise that anyone can provide. i have been back the carpark and taken photos and light readings but this maybe more for the POPLA second stage appeal.

You issued the company vehicle that is associated to my name with a parking ticket on 05/02/2016 but I believe it was unfairly issued. I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me or the keeper of the vehicle. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

• There was insufficient signage
The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. On entering the car park the signage faces away from the entrance. Photographic evidence can be provided.
This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. Please see attached evidence I have gathered as proof.

• The car park is insignificantly illuminated.
Under the regulations BS EN 12464 – 2 Light and lighting - Lighting of work places - Outdoor work places - table 5.9, the car park fails to meet the minimum car park lighting requirements of 5 lux and a uniformity of 0.25.

The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

In my case, the £90 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of 50p for 1 hour. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.



OR

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the terms unclear to drivers before they park. Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Dublindel

This is Smart Parking for gods sake. Tell them to push off and enjoy any letters that you get. They are wimps.