Is this legal?

Kitty78

It isn't a new twist at all it is the truth with evidence to back it up, if I had written everything in my last post it would have been even longer and I would have received even more negative comments. I tried to explain what had happened in the order it had happened for advice to see where I stand on unfair dismissal because I didn't know much about it and now I do.

I very much doubt if you had been treated this way you would just roll over and accept it, I'm fighting for my rights as an individual and that is my right is it not.

If I can only claim for what I am owed at the end of this then that is fine but I am not going to let these bullies force me into signing a document just to get my money that I am owed and sign away any rights I may have to take it further. Why would they do that if they were not worried I could?

sangie595

Kitty78 wrote: »

It isn't a new twist at all it is the truth with evidence to back it up, if I had written everything in my last post it would have been even longer and I would have received even more negative comments. I tried to explain what had happened in the order it had happened for advice to see where I stand on unfair dismissal because I didn't know much about it and now I do.

I very much doubt if you had been treated this way you would just roll over and accept it, I'm fighting for my rights as an individual and that is my right is it not.

If I can only claim for what I am owed at the end of this then that is fine but I am not going to let these bullies force me into signing a document just to get my money that I am owed and sign away any rights I may have to take it further. Why would they do that if they were not worried I could?

I don't want to go over old ground again after the last thread. But even if the process was used for men, a fact that you cannot prove, and not for you, that does not constitute sex discrimination in law. You were not dismissed for a reason related to your sex, And you have no evidence that you were dismissed for any reason connected to your sex. You may dispute the reason for dismissal, but it had nothing to do with discrimination.

I haven't suggested you sign the document, and I have said that you can make a legal claim for what you say you are owed. That is not rolling over. But as you were told on the previous thread, you are assuming rights you don't have and assuming interpretations of the law that don't exist. Unfair dismissal is not an option.

kingfisherblue

Without re-reading the previous thread, I seem to recall that the OP was requested to work from an office instead of from home, as she had previously been doing. IIRC, she refused (possibly something to do with childcare?) and things escalated from there. The OP appeared to think it unreasonable to work from an office base and refused to do so.

Kitty78

I did not refuse to work from the office, I requested to have a conversation about the change in location to see if an agreement could be made that was satisfactory to both me (because yes I am a mum and my son attends nursery within a 5 minute walk from home) and my ex employer.

I as an individual do not see that as an unreasonable request.

When another employee was relocated to another site back in June they called him into a meeting to discuss his thoughts on the change to his contract so why should I not be treated the same (he also has worked for the company for less than 2 years.

Kitty78

I have very hard evidence that more than one male employee has been treated with fair procedures for issues more serious than mine.

Sex discrimination is about equal rights and that includes the hiring of employee's and the dismissal of employee's, each person should be treated equally and fairly and in my case I have not so they would need to answer the question why this is and my betting is they wouldn't have a very good answer.

There was also a number of bullying incidents leading up to my dismissal from a manager towards me, on many occasions my job was threatened due to his erratic behaviour and I had the support from other managers at the time and I was told not to deal with him.

I was reduced to tears on more than one occasion, made to feel inadequate in my job and then meetings were being had behind my back excluding me from information that affected my job (that they appointed me to do might I add) When a manager constantly sets you up to fail because they want an excuse to get rid of you then I believe that constitutes as bullying and that is just what he is only he is a coward as he does it through email and whatsapp as he doesn't have the management skills or adequate communication skills to speak to people properly.

I believe this manager has instigated this dismissal and because of his psychotic erratic behaviour there was no thinking beyond his own personal feelings towards me and that led to everything being done unprofessionally and without any procedures.

Most websites I have visited including employment law all state that no matter what reason an employee is being dismissed a proper procedure should be followed and if the company doesn't have their own procedures and policies they should follow the ACAS code of practice.

This is I admit a long and complicated case, there is so much more to the story but I wouldn't like to bore people with it on here so that they can come to their conclusion after reading the title.

CAB have been very helpful and they seem to think I have a very strong case so we will see if I can take this further soon.

Undervalued

Kitty78 wrote: »

I as an individual do not see that as an unreasonable request.

When another employee was relocated to another site back in June they called him into a meeting to discuss his thoughts on the change to his contract so why should I not be treated the same (he also has worked for the company for less than 2 years.

Maybe so.

However there is no legal requirement to treat all employees the same unless the reason for the "discrimination" is one of the few prohibited by law.

In fact you could argue that most aspects of employment (selection, promotion, remuneration, benefits etc) ARE by definition discriminatory. However that doesn't make them unlawful discrimination.

Kitty78

Then I think they would have to have a good reason for treating more than one employee the same and then treating me and only me completely different from everyone else.

I think you will also find that when it comes to dismissing staff the same procedures should be followed for all unless someone is violent to a manager or member of staff but even then some sort of investigation needs to be had.

Undervalued

Kitty78 wrote: »

Then I think they would have to have a good reason for treating more than one employee the same and then treating me and only me completely different from everyone else.

I think you will also find that when it comes to dismissing staff the same procedures should be followed for all unless someone is violent to a manager or member of staff but even then some sort of investigation needs to be had.

Sorry but no.

To protect itself in the event of an unfair dismissal claim an employer needs to carry out a fair process. ACAS issue guidelines as to how this might be done but the days of statutory procedures are over.

Providing the process is fair there is no obligation for it to be the same as the one used for somebody else.

And no, they wouldn't "have to have a good reason for treating you differently". Unless you can show UNLAWFUL discrimination (e.g gender, race, sexual orientation etc) then it doesn't matter if you were treated differently or not.

Just because you are a woman and the other employee was male doesn't in itself prove unlawful discrimination. You would need to show that was the REASON for the discrimination.

sangie595

Kitty78 wrote: »

I have very hard evidence that more than one male employee has been treated with fair procedures for issues more serious than mine. That does not constitute sex discrimination

Sex discrimination is about equal rights No, it isn't, and if you know anything about the law then you would know it isn'tand that includes the hiring of employee's and the dismissal of employee's, each person should be treated equally and fairly There is no law that says that and in my case I have not so they would need to answer the question why this is and my betting is they wouldn't have a very good answer.No they wouldn't - you do not have two years service so they won't be answering anything

There was also a number of bullying incidents leading up to my dismissal from a manager towards me, on many occasions my job was threatened due to his erratic behaviour and I had the support from other managers at the time and I was told not to deal with him. Completely irrelevant. How many times - you do not have two years service, and even if you did, you cannot claim this to be the reason for the dismissal - you did nothing at all about it. Raising matters after the event is called "making stuff up" not facts.

I was reduced to tears on more than one occasion, made to feel inadequate in my job and then meetings were being had behind my back excluding me from information that affected my job (that they appointed me to do might I add) Sorry - but so what? When a manager constantly sets you up to fail because they want an excuse to get rid of you then I believe that constitutes as bullying and that is just what he is only he is a coward as he does it through email and whatsapp as he doesn't have the management skills or adequate communication skills to speak to people properly.Your belief and the law are hundreds of miles apart

I believe this manager has instigated this dismissal and because of his psychotic erratic behaviour there was no thinking beyond his own personal feelings towards me and that led to everything being done unprofessionally and without any procedures.Sigh - TWO YEARS SERVICE NEEDED. He can instigate any dismissal he likes before that and there is nothing you can do about it.

Most websites I have visited including employment law all state that no matter what reason an employee is being dismissed a proper procedure should be followed and if the company doesn't have their own procedures and policies they should follow the ACAS code of practice. Rubbish - you are either reading very out of date sites or reading what you want to. If you don't have two years service they may send your dismissal notice by line dancing elephants!

This is I admit a long and complicated case, there is so much more to the story but I wouldn't like to bore people with it on here so that they can come to their conclusion after reading the title.No - it isn't long or complicated. You are digging up irrelevant nonsense to try to fit your world view.

CAB have been very helpful and they seem to think I have a very strong case so we will see if I can take this further soon. Really - I do hope that their indemnity insurance is intact if they have said that - most CAB have no employment law specialists, and NOBODY who knows what they are doing would ever say that there is a strong case based on anything you have said.

Final warning, then you may get out your £1200 and blow it on a tribunal claim. You'd have better luck spending it on lottery tickets. Sex discrimination in law does not mean what you think it means. Fair in law does not mean what you think it means. Unfair dismissal does not mean what you think it means. And without two years service then you will be risking a lot of money to be told what we have already all told you. Because there are no refunds when it is thrown out, as it will be. And if you are very lucky your former employer won't pursue you for costs - but I wouldn't bet on that. All of that assuming that you are able to moderate your language somewhat, because if you speak about people in legal proceedings in the same way your have described them here, you may be facing other claims as well.

Anger is never a good cause for legal proceedings. In your case it is your only cause.

Kitty78

Wow I think you must be related to my ex manager, everyone else is wrong and you are right which is fine this is a forum and you are entitled to your opinion.