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Unfair Dismissal/Breach of Contract/Gross Misconduct
Kitty78
Posts: 19 Forumite
Hi
I would like some advice on a workplace matter in which I have been treated appallingly.
I had been a book-keeper for a small restaurant since September 2014, Doing 20 hours a week working from home. I have worked many hours overtime unpaid, done certain tasks when on holiday i.e make payments/pay wages because no one else would do it.
In the first week of January I received an email telling me that all the files and paperwork was to be moved to the office and they would create a desk for me so I would be based in the office 5 days a week. I responded to the email telling the managers how this would impact me financially as I was already struggling each month. They replied that they would discuss what I had highlighted and come back to me but they didn't. A week later January 12th I received another email asking if the paperwork was ready, I responded by saying I hadn't had a response from the previous email, I highlighted the implications again and asked for someone to have a conversation with me about the move as no one had even discussed it with me and procedures should be followed when changing an employee's contract. The response I received was "we will come back to you by the end of the week" On Wednesday the 13th whilst I was boxing up the paperwork one of the Managers turned up on my doorstep without prior warning and told me to down tools as I no longer had a job. I was devastated and asked what were the reasons, why was I being treated like this and where are my written warnings and meetings to discuss any issues they might of had with me. I requested a meeting to discuss with all 3 managers what had happened and why which was sent out by David and scheduled for Monday 18th January so I thought great at least I can defend myself and find out the reasons why I had been treated like this.
I had no contact with anyone on the Thursday and then on the Friday I received an email from David "Kate despite numerous requests we still have not had the login details for Kashflow" There was other stuff in the email which was him just talking to me like a child. I responded by asking him who and when had these requests been made, I also said that if Allan had communicated back to him what we had agreed on the Wednesday which was I would finish up the invoicing and accounts and bring everything to the meeting scheduled Monday there would be no need for the email he had just sent.
He responded by Saying Allan has been asking for months and that if I didn't give them to him by Monday they would reconsider what I was going to get paid. Now I have a text message from Allan dates 1st September where he rings me, I don't pick up as I am putting my son to bed, I tell im I'll call him back when my son is settled but he responds saying "it is ok I have managed to log into Kashflow now have a good night" Hard evidence he already had the login details and he had never requested them since that date.He said I was rude and had an attitude. I tried to ring Andy and find out why David had been given that information and why he had sent the email out, Allan didn't answer the call and within 30 minutes of the last email which I had not even responded to (because I wanted to speak to Allan) David sent out another email firing me for gross misconduct, threatening to send the police to my house to retrieve everything from me and again being very abusive and aggressive. I also didn't respond to this email, I was in such a state as Allan wasn't picking up as he knew why I was ringing I didn't know what to do. Immediately another email was sent to cancel the meeting that was set for Monday and no one contacted me or spoke to me since the emails.
I have never in all the time working for this company ever received any written warnings or had any meetings to discuss any issues they may have had with my work performance. Other employee's have had procedures followed i.e written warnings and meetings set up to discuss issues with them and yet they still have their jobs.
On the wednesday although I was so upset and devastated at losing my job (I'm a single mum trying to give my son a good life) I had told Allan that I would finish off everything so that I wasn't just handing over a pile of paperwork. He said I would be paid until the end of the month as long as I made myself available to them should they need anything and in exchange I would get my month's wage and one month's notice pay as stated in my contract, plus any outstanding holiday and my expenses paid up until that date.
As I said no one contacted me to let me know what was going on, as the discussions were with Allan I tried calling him and sent him an email on the Saturday which were all ignored.
On Monday 18th I set up another phone to record my conversation and I rang Allan in the hope he would pick up and let me know what was going on. He did pick up and I have the whole conversation recorded with him confirming what we had agreed on Wednesday still stands and he wasn't going to go back on his word. He admitted that He and Tim did not agree with the emails David had sent to me and that is not how they wants to run their business going forward, the next 2 weeks were to be a handover period and I was to be available during my normal working hours. I asked him if I would get my wages and he said yes and I then said plus a month's notice pay and he said yes what we discussed still stands.
I sent Allan text messages to confirm my expenses and asked what should I do with the receipts and they were all ignored.
Bearing in mind I still had not had anything in writing and I still did not have any valid reason for being given notice on a job I loved and was good at.
On the 27th January 2 days before pay day Allan rang me to ask about some files, he also tells me that I will be paid on Friday and they will calculate the rest of the notice pay for the last 2 weeks of my notice. I then challenged him and said that isn't what we agreed, it was one month's wage and a month's notice pay plus any holiday accrued for January and expenses. As you can imagine I was so angry that I was being treated so badly, I picked my son up from nursery went home and sent Allan the recorded message of our conversation, I sent him a text telling him to listen to it and now tell me you didn't agree those terms.
Allan rang me and still denied that he has said those things which were very clearly said by him on the recording, he then started to say I was on garden leave for those 2 weeks and part of that was my notice. Not once had he ever mentioned garden leave before in any conversation so he had obviously been on google to cover his back. So still denying it he starts saying this is getting personal now (he was clearly feeling the pressure of being caught out as a liar) He ended the call quickly and said let's not have anymore discussions we'll do this through letters so I agreed.
About an hour later I receive another email from David (Allan had gone running to him) again firing me for gross misconduct on top of already being fired for misconduct on top of being issued my notice (it would be laughable if I wasn't worried about getting paid) In this new email he had set out 6 points (all poor excuses) to which was the reason I was being fired for misconduct, I would not receive any pay until he was satisfied this was sorted out.
At the bottom of the email I was presented with 3 options, 1) to take half my wages of £420 and end it there, the payment would be immediate. 2) As a gesture of goodwill they would pay me my month's wage, give me a reference as long as I agree I resigned on the 1st January, again payment was to be immediate. 3) No payment in lieu and we would go to dispute.
Well obviously there was only one option I could take, I was bullied and blackmailed into taking an option that wasn't true to ensure I would get some wages to pay my sons nursery fees and pay my bills. I visited the citizens advice the following day to ask them what I can do and they basically told me to take option 2 as there is nothing in the email that states once you have taken that option and been paid you can't take it further should you wish to.
I emailed them back on the 28th stating I would take option 2 but I would also like my holiday pay and expenses paid as I am entitled to them, to this day that email has been ignored and no response received.
On Friday 29th when wages were due to be paid, one of the employee's messaged me asking how I was, I said not great and asked if he had been paid. He told me he had but only half of his wages, they made me wait until the end of the day to pay my wages across, no expenses and no holiday just my wage. I have had no contact with them since then but have now written a letter of dispute to them to request they pay me what I am owed.
What I want to know is do I have the right to take them to court for what they have done? My employment was less than 2 years but I want to find a solicitor who will take it to court independently as they have done so many things wrong and breached my contract on so many levels. I don't see why I should allow them to get away with treating me like this when I haven't done anything wrong.
I am putting all my evidence together that backs up and defends me against everything they have quoted in all emails for the reasons I have been fired for misconduct, as I have said before I have had no meetings or been presented with any factual evidence to support what they are accusing me of but I have plenty to present back to them.
Apologies for the length of this but I think you need all the facts.
Thanks Katherine
I would like some advice on a workplace matter in which I have been treated appallingly.
I had been a book-keeper for a small restaurant since September 2014, Doing 20 hours a week working from home. I have worked many hours overtime unpaid, done certain tasks when on holiday i.e make payments/pay wages because no one else would do it.
In the first week of January I received an email telling me that all the files and paperwork was to be moved to the office and they would create a desk for me so I would be based in the office 5 days a week. I responded to the email telling the managers how this would impact me financially as I was already struggling each month. They replied that they would discuss what I had highlighted and come back to me but they didn't. A week later January 12th I received another email asking if the paperwork was ready, I responded by saying I hadn't had a response from the previous email, I highlighted the implications again and asked for someone to have a conversation with me about the move as no one had even discussed it with me and procedures should be followed when changing an employee's contract. The response I received was "we will come back to you by the end of the week" On Wednesday the 13th whilst I was boxing up the paperwork one of the Managers turned up on my doorstep without prior warning and told me to down tools as I no longer had a job. I was devastated and asked what were the reasons, why was I being treated like this and where are my written warnings and meetings to discuss any issues they might of had with me. I requested a meeting to discuss with all 3 managers what had happened and why which was sent out by David and scheduled for Monday 18th January so I thought great at least I can defend myself and find out the reasons why I had been treated like this.
I had no contact with anyone on the Thursday and then on the Friday I received an email from David "Kate despite numerous requests we still have not had the login details for Kashflow" There was other stuff in the email which was him just talking to me like a child. I responded by asking him who and when had these requests been made, I also said that if Allan had communicated back to him what we had agreed on the Wednesday which was I would finish up the invoicing and accounts and bring everything to the meeting scheduled Monday there would be no need for the email he had just sent.
He responded by Saying Allan has been asking for months and that if I didn't give them to him by Monday they would reconsider what I was going to get paid. Now I have a text message from Allan dates 1st September where he rings me, I don't pick up as I am putting my son to bed, I tell im I'll call him back when my son is settled but he responds saying "it is ok I have managed to log into Kashflow now have a good night" Hard evidence he already had the login details and he had never requested them since that date.He said I was rude and had an attitude. I tried to ring Andy and find out why David had been given that information and why he had sent the email out, Allan didn't answer the call and within 30 minutes of the last email which I had not even responded to (because I wanted to speak to Allan) David sent out another email firing me for gross misconduct, threatening to send the police to my house to retrieve everything from me and again being very abusive and aggressive. I also didn't respond to this email, I was in such a state as Allan wasn't picking up as he knew why I was ringing I didn't know what to do. Immediately another email was sent to cancel the meeting that was set for Monday and no one contacted me or spoke to me since the emails.
I have never in all the time working for this company ever received any written warnings or had any meetings to discuss any issues they may have had with my work performance. Other employee's have had procedures followed i.e written warnings and meetings set up to discuss issues with them and yet they still have their jobs.
On the wednesday although I was so upset and devastated at losing my job (I'm a single mum trying to give my son a good life) I had told Allan that I would finish off everything so that I wasn't just handing over a pile of paperwork. He said I would be paid until the end of the month as long as I made myself available to them should they need anything and in exchange I would get my month's wage and one month's notice pay as stated in my contract, plus any outstanding holiday and my expenses paid up until that date.
As I said no one contacted me to let me know what was going on, as the discussions were with Allan I tried calling him and sent him an email on the Saturday which were all ignored.
On Monday 18th I set up another phone to record my conversation and I rang Allan in the hope he would pick up and let me know what was going on. He did pick up and I have the whole conversation recorded with him confirming what we had agreed on Wednesday still stands and he wasn't going to go back on his word. He admitted that He and Tim did not agree with the emails David had sent to me and that is not how they wants to run their business going forward, the next 2 weeks were to be a handover period and I was to be available during my normal working hours. I asked him if I would get my wages and he said yes and I then said plus a month's notice pay and he said yes what we discussed still stands.
I sent Allan text messages to confirm my expenses and asked what should I do with the receipts and they were all ignored.
Bearing in mind I still had not had anything in writing and I still did not have any valid reason for being given notice on a job I loved and was good at.
On the 27th January 2 days before pay day Allan rang me to ask about some files, he also tells me that I will be paid on Friday and they will calculate the rest of the notice pay for the last 2 weeks of my notice. I then challenged him and said that isn't what we agreed, it was one month's wage and a month's notice pay plus any holiday accrued for January and expenses. As you can imagine I was so angry that I was being treated so badly, I picked my son up from nursery went home and sent Allan the recorded message of our conversation, I sent him a text telling him to listen to it and now tell me you didn't agree those terms.
Allan rang me and still denied that he has said those things which were very clearly said by him on the recording, he then started to say I was on garden leave for those 2 weeks and part of that was my notice. Not once had he ever mentioned garden leave before in any conversation so he had obviously been on google to cover his back. So still denying it he starts saying this is getting personal now (he was clearly feeling the pressure of being caught out as a liar) He ended the call quickly and said let's not have anymore discussions we'll do this through letters so I agreed.
About an hour later I receive another email from David (Allan had gone running to him) again firing me for gross misconduct on top of already being fired for misconduct on top of being issued my notice (it would be laughable if I wasn't worried about getting paid) In this new email he had set out 6 points (all poor excuses) to which was the reason I was being fired for misconduct, I would not receive any pay until he was satisfied this was sorted out.
At the bottom of the email I was presented with 3 options, 1) to take half my wages of £420 and end it there, the payment would be immediate. 2) As a gesture of goodwill they would pay me my month's wage, give me a reference as long as I agree I resigned on the 1st January, again payment was to be immediate. 3) No payment in lieu and we would go to dispute.
Well obviously there was only one option I could take, I was bullied and blackmailed into taking an option that wasn't true to ensure I would get some wages to pay my sons nursery fees and pay my bills. I visited the citizens advice the following day to ask them what I can do and they basically told me to take option 2 as there is nothing in the email that states once you have taken that option and been paid you can't take it further should you wish to.
I emailed them back on the 28th stating I would take option 2 but I would also like my holiday pay and expenses paid as I am entitled to them, to this day that email has been ignored and no response received.
On Friday 29th when wages were due to be paid, one of the employee's messaged me asking how I was, I said not great and asked if he had been paid. He told me he had but only half of his wages, they made me wait until the end of the day to pay my wages across, no expenses and no holiday just my wage. I have had no contact with them since then but have now written a letter of dispute to them to request they pay me what I am owed.
What I want to know is do I have the right to take them to court for what they have done? My employment was less than 2 years but I want to find a solicitor who will take it to court independently as they have done so many things wrong and breached my contract on so many levels. I don't see why I should allow them to get away with treating me like this when I haven't done anything wrong.
I am putting all my evidence together that backs up and defends me against everything they have quoted in all emails for the reasons I have been fired for misconduct, as I have said before I have had no meetings or been presented with any factual evidence to support what they are accusing me of but I have plenty to present back to them.
Apologies for the length of this but I think you need all the facts.
Thanks Katherine
0
Comments
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you need to make a summary form of this, like a paragraph. Not many people are going to read all of that0
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It doesn't matter what you did or did not do, you can be dismissed without reason within the first 2 years of employment. Unless you had a protected characteristic, which I don't think you had, there is no claim for unfair dismissal.If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales0
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Well, I did skim it all. The very sad thing is that you have less then 2 years' length of service, so they can sack you on a whim. You have no recourse unless you can demonstrate that your sacking was related to a protected characteristic such as race or gender. However, they cannot withhold your holiday pay. It is probably also worth pursuing your expenses, although obviously I cannot judge from the information given whether you are entitled to these or not. Both of these payments can, I understand, be pursued through the small claims court, and this can be done online.
However, they do sound like total scumbags, and only you can judge whether the relatively small amounts you are owed are worth risking your agreed reference for - or whether you can trust them to give an agreed reference at all.
PS If the names in your post are real, I suggest you remove them to maintain anonymity. Just in case your employer is reading.Ex board guide. Signature now changed (if you know, you know).0 -
You have no claim for unfair dismissal.
You should write to them detailing what payments you believe to be outstanding and give them a reasonable time to respond. If you get no response you can pursue via small claims.
You come across in parts as a little "I know my rights" when the reality is that you have very few. These situations are frustrating but it is generally better to bite your tongue until you are able to articulate your thoughts in a more constructive way.0 -
Hi
I would like some advice on a workplace matter in which I have been treated appallingly.
I had been a book-keeper for a small restaurant since September 2014, Doing 20 hours a week working from home. I have worked many hours overtime unpaid, done certain tasks when on holiday i.e make payments/pay wages because no one else would do it.
In the first week of January I received an email telling me that all the files and paperwork was to be moved to the office and they would create a desk for me so I would be based in the office 5 days a week. I responded to the email telling the managers how this would impact me financially as I was already struggling each month. They replied that they would discuss what I had highlighted and come back to me but they didn't. A week later January 12th I received another email asking if the paperwork was ready, I responded by saying I hadn't had a response from the previous email, I highlighted the implications again and asked for someone to have a conversation with me about the move as no one had even discussed it with me and procedures should be followed when changing an employee's contract. The response I received was "we will come back to you by the end of the week" On Wednesday the 13th whilst I was boxing up the paperwork one of the Managers turned up on my doorstep without prior warning and told me to down tools as I no longer had a job. I was devastated and asked what were the reasons, why was I being treated like this and where are my written warnings and meetings to discuss any issues they might of had with me. I requested a meeting to discuss with all 3 managers what had happened and why which was sent out by Darren and scheduled for Monday 18th January so I thought great at least I can defend myself and find out the reasons why I had been treated like this.
I had no contact with anyone on the Thursday and then on the Friday I received an email from Darren "Katherine despite numerous requests we still have not had the login details for Kashflow" There was other stuff in the email which was him just talking to me like a child. I responded by asking him who and when had these requests been made, I also said that if Andy had communicated back to him what we had agreed on the Wednesday which was I would finish up the invoicing and accounts and bring everything to the meeting scheduled Monday there would be no need for the email he had just sent.
He responded by Saying Andy has been asking for months and that if I didn't give them to him by Monday they would reconsider what I was going to get paid. Now I have a text message from Andy dates 1st September where he rings me, I don't pick up as I am putting my son to bed, I tell im I'll call him back when my son is settled but he responds saying "it is ok I have managed to log into Kashflow now have a good night" Hard evidence he already had the login details and he had never requested them since that date.He said I was rude and had an attitude. I tried to ring Andy and find out why Darren had been given that information and why he had sent the email out, Andy didn't answer the call and within 30 minutes of the last email which I had not even responded to (because I wanted to speak to Andy) Darren sent out another email firing me for gross misconduct, threatening to send the police to my house to retrieve everything from me and again being very abusive and aggressive. I also didn't respond to this email, I was in such a state as Andy wasn't picking up as he knew why I was ringing I didn't know what to do. Immediately another email was sent to cancel the meeting that was set for Monday and no one contacted me or spoke to me since the emails.
I have never in all the time working for this company ever received any written warnings or had any meetings to discuss any issues they may have had with my work performance. Other employee's have had procedures followed i.e written warnings and meetings set up to discuss issues with them and yet they still have their jobs.
On the wednesday although I was so upset and devastated at losing my job (I'm a single mum trying to give my son a good life) I had told Andy that I would finish off everything so that I wasn't just handing over a pile of paperwork. He said I would be paid until the end of the month as long as I made myself available to them should they need anything and in exchange I would get my month's wage and one month's notice pay as stated in my contract, plus any outstanding holiday and my expenses paid up until that date.
As I said no one contacted me to let me know what was going on, as the discussions were with Andy I tried calling him and sent him an email on the Saturday which were all ignored.
On Monday 18th I set up another phone to record my conversation and I rang Andy in the hope he would pick up and let me know what was going on. He did pick up and I have the whole conversation recorded with him confirming what we had agreed on Wednesday still stands and he wasn't going to go back on his word. He admitted that He and Terry did not agree with the emails Darren had sent to me and that is not how they wants to run their business going forward, the next 2 weeks were to be a handover period and I was to be available during my normal working hours. I asked him if I would get my wages and he said yes and I then said plus a month's notice pay and he said yes what we discussed still stands.
I sent Andy text messages to confirm my expenses and asked what should I do with the receipts and they were all ignored.
Bearing in mind I still had not had anything in writing and I still did not have any valid reason for being given notice on a job I loved and was good at.
On the 27th January 2 days before pay day Andy rings me to ask about some files, he also tells me that I will be paid on Friday and they will calculate the rest of the notice pay for the last 2 weeks of my notice. I then challenged him and said that isn't what we agreed, it was one month's wage and a month's notice pay plus any holiday accrued for January and expenses. As you can imagine I was so angry that I was being treated so badly, I picked my son up from nursery went home and sent Andy the recorded message of our conversation, I sent him a text telling him to listen to it and now tell me you didn't agree those terms.
Andy rang me and still denied that he has said those things which were very clearly said by him on the recording, he then started to say I was on garden leave for those 2 weeks and part of that was my notice. Not once had he ever mentioned garden leave before in any conversation so he had obviously been on google to cover his back. So still denying it he starts saying this is getting personal now (he was clearly feeling the pressure of being caught out as a liar) He ended the call quickly and said lets not have anymore discussions we'll do this through letters so I agreed.
About an hour later I receive another email from Darren (Andy had gone running to him) again firing me for gross misconduct on top of already being fired for misconduct on top of being issued my notice (it would be laughable if I wasn't worried about getting paid) In this new email he had set out 6 points (all poor excuses) to which was the reason I was being fired for misconduct, I would not receive any pay until he was satisfied this was sorted out.
At the bottom of the email I was presented with 3 options, 1) to take half my wages of £420 and end it there, the payment would be immediate. 2) As a gesture of goodwill they would pay me my month's wage, give me a reference as long as I agree I resigned on the 1st January, again payment was to be immediate. 3) No payment in lieu and we would go to dispute.
Well obviously there was only one option I could take, I was bullied and blackmailed into taking an option that wasn't true to ensure I would get some wages to pay my sons nursery fees and pay my bills. I visited the citizens advice the following day to ask them what I can do and they basically told me to take option 2 as there is nothing in the email that states once you have taken that option and been paid you can't take it further should you wish to.
I emailed them back on the 28th stating I would take option 2 but I would also like my holiday pay and expenses paid as I am entitled to them, to this day that email has been ignored and no response received.
On Friday 29th when wages were due to be paid, one of the employee's messaged me asking how I was, I said not great and asked if he had been paid. He told me he had but only half of his wages, they made me wait until the end of the day to pay my wages across, no expenses and no holiday just my wage. I have had no contact with them since then but have now written a letter of dispute to them to request they pay me what I am owed.
What I want to know is do I have the right to take them to court for what they have done? My employment was less than 2 years but I want to find a solicitor who will take it to court independently as they have done so many things wrong and breached my contract on so many levels. I don't see why I should allow them to get away with treating me like this when I haven't done anything wrong.
I am putting all my evidence together that backs up and defends me against everything they have quoted in all emails for the reasons I have been fired for misconduct, as I have said before I have had no meetings or been presented with any factual evidence to support what they are accusing me of but I have plenty to present back to them.
Apologies for the length of this but I think you need all the facts.
Thanks Katherine
If they haven't paid you your contractual notice and owed holiday you could probably take this forward. But it does sound like you agreed to settle for less.0 -
jobbingmusician wrote: »However, they do sound like total scumbags, and only you can judge whether the relatively small amounts you are owed are worth risking your agreed reference for - or whether you can trust them to give an agreed reference at all.
I admittedly only read the first few paraghraphs (it was a daunting task for a saturday night!) but my initial impression was that op was being the pain by not complying with the request to work on site.
Unless the contract explicitly states home-working, the employee should be expected to make a reasonable adjustment if the company request this. I have sympathy for the company for wanting someone to work at the shop but some home-workers are stubborn about giving up their cushy postings...
Maybe you are more correct than me especially if you read it all, but I just get the impression that OP was initially unreasonable and this caused the whole situation to happen.0 -
I admittedly only read the first few paraghraphs (it was a daunting task for a saturday night!) but my initial impression was that op was being the pain by not complying with the request to work on site.
Unless the contract explicitly states home-working, the employee should be expected to make a reasonable adjustment if the company request this. I have sympathy for the company for wanting someone to work at the shop but some home-workers are stubborn about giving up their cushy postings...
Maybe you are more correct than me especially if you read it all, but I just get the impression that OP was initially unreasonable and this caused the whole situation to happen.
Ill just take your word for it as far as interpretation as i cant even skim that. I think the op just needed to let it all out or something.0 -
My contract did state that I was to work from home and I didn't refuse to make the move I wanted to have a meeting about it to discuss coming to an agreement that would work for me as a single mum and them as an employer.
If an employer wants to change an employee's terms of contract they should have a meeting with them to discuss it.0 -
I responded to them and asked for my holiday pay and expenses to be paid as Citizens Advice said I was entitled to this as it is not wages.
My contract also states that expenses are paid.0
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