Help With PCN Please (Unclear Signage)

Apollo18

The driver received a Parking Charge Notice (stuck on windscreen) for parking without a permit on what turned out to be a council estate (in London). The Ticket was issued by Wing Parking Ltd on behalf of the council.

The PCN was for £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days. I later received a Notice To Owner letter by PCS saying the opportunity to pay at the reduced amount had passed and the full amount was now due (although they were demanding £120 not £100 as stated on the PCN).

I appealed the ticket to PCS on the basis that the signs were not clearly displayed and then I received correspondence 55 days later from Wing rejecting my appeal denying that the signs were not clearly posted and also that I should have read the sign displayed at the entrance to the estate. They have given a further 14 days to pay the reduced fee of £60 or the full fee of £100 thereafter. They have also given the option of making a Stage 2 appeal to the council (on the original PCN there is no mention of a Stage 2 appeal, it just mentions that if at the end of the appeal process the appeal is rejected then they will provide the information to appeal to POPLA.

Can anyone please help with advice of what the next step should be? Should I repeat the appeal to the council and then appeal to POPLA if the appeal is rejected?

Apollo18

I forgot to mention that between the time I made the appeal and received the rejection, I also received a demand for payment of £150 from DRP (Debt Recovery Plus Ltd).

Redx

this all sounds like a private parking ticket and not council

popla dont deal with council tickets (check what the popla initials mean)

its either council with normal appeal processes, or its private with popla as an ADR for appeals by BPA members

it cannot be both

I think wing are micing up their paperwork and confusing you

the fact its gone to DRP sounds like private and not council, and PCS is DRP in disguise

Apollo18

Yes, on the council's website it says the Stage 3 appeal is to POPLA.

"Appealing an estate parking ticket:

Stage 1: Appeal to Wing Parking
Stage 2: Appeal to the council
Stage 3: Appeal to Parking On Private Land Appeals"

Coupon-mad

They have given me a further 14 days to pay the reduced fee of £60 or the full fee of £100 thereafter. They have also given me the option of making a Stage 2 appeal to the council

I know about these. I have dealt with this 3 stage appeal from Wing (at Islington in a residential car park they own or their offshoot ALMO Housing Association run?).

Please do not miss the 14 days deadline, you need to repeat your appeal urgently to the Council (same appeal you sent to Wing, no need to change it) and you will THEN get your POPLA code and can come back here to learn how to win. You MUST do stage 2 with Wing appeals before they'll give a POPLA code and the BPA don't care and seem to think that's OK.

Did you admit who was driving in your appeal?

Do NOT submit the POPLA appeal the same as before or you are likely to lose. Come back here and we'll assist. We know how to win at POPLA.

Apollo18

Thanks. No, I didn't admit to who was driving in my appeal. I wrote the following:

"Dear Sir,

I wish to formally appeal the Parking Charge Notice No. xxxxxx.

My challenge is on the basis that the parking signage was not displayed clearly. The signage was obscured by trees and ivy and could not be clearly seen as evidenced in the attached photographs.

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification that the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours faithfully..."

I then gave my name and address.

Coupon-mad

Great, send that to the Council address given and if it has to be posted, get free proof of posting from the Post Office counter (any corner shop PO can give you a certificate of posting as proof). No need to embellish it. The real work goes into POPLA stage.

Then start reading the POPLA examples in readiness, in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread. You can also find some older Wing examples of POPLA appeals from 2015 by searching the forum for 'Wing POPLA' but don't copy any single one that old, verbatim. You'll need an amalgamation of the two, really, a Wing version but updated to include a 'PE v Beavis' argument. You need to know about the Beavis decision and how more recent POPLA appeals look (the ones in the NEWBIES thread).

Was it for not displaying a permit in an Islington or Greenwich residential car park?

Apollo18

Thanks again. I can send the appeal by email.
I've already started reading some threads about Wing PCNs but I was worried that they were too old and the advice be outdated. I'll send in the appeal tomorrow and then start reading up on the threads you suggest.

It was issued for not displaying a parking permit on an estate:
royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/114/council_estates_-_parking/1271/parking_on_council_estates/3

Umkomaas

http://royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/114/council_estates__parking/1271/parking_on_council_estates/3

Redx

Apollo18 wrote: »

Thanks again. I can send the appeal by email.
I've already started reading some threads about Wing PCNs but I was worried that they were too old and the advice be outdated. I'll send in the appeal tomorrow and then start reading up on the threads you suggest.

you did the correct thing because most if not all WING ones on here are too old and more importantly this process is different than all the rest that we see on here, being 3 stages and not 2 stages. most of the regulars here wont have seen them before, so we are all learning and its rare that we see something new here, its usually a rehash of same old , same old , known in the trade as S.S.D.D.

good luck

Coupon-mad

Apollo18 wrote: »

Thanks again. I can send the appeal by email.
I've already started reading some threads about Wing PCNs but I was worried that they were too old and the advice be outdated. I'll send in the appeal tomorrow and then start reading up on the threads you suggest.

It was issued for not displaying a parking permit on an estate:
royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/114/council_estates_-_parking/1271/parking_on_council_estates/3

Good, see you when you get a POPLA code, which is when you up the ante.