POPLA stage - Britannia Parking PCN

Coupon-mad

This is true about POPLA systems, and is not the fault of the PPC. They don't have to email you a copy but you must email POPLA and tell them when it arrives, on Monday of course, not tomorrow (!!) and ask for seven days from then.

What things should I look out for in their evidence pack that I can rebut?

Landowner contract, signage and their argument to explain the rationale /loss/Beavis applicability of the high charge. Plus any facts and omissions.

YJ68

Thanks Coupon-mad, so I'll email POPLA on Monday to ask that the 7 days are counted from the 29th February.

In the meantime, just so that I can understand the process... When I sent my appeal letter to POPLA, does that letter get forwarded on to Britannia for them to reply to and provide their evidence in response to my letter? Or do POPLA just contact Britannia and ask them to provide evidence of why they have issued the PCN (without having seen my appeal letter)?

Coupon-mad

Yes Britannia will have seen your appeal but many can't do much except send a standard 'evidence' pack, some people can't think outside the box...

YJ68

I sincerely hope that is the case! (them not thinking outside the box). Hopefully that means I can put a good rebuttal response and that the POPLA assessor will actually read and understand all the points in my appeal.

No doubt I will be coming back here for advice once I have received the pack. I will draft a response for you to comment on before I submit my rebuttal.

YJ68

So, I’ve now had a look through Britannia’s evidence pack. They have formulated a response based on the headings I used in my letter (posted previously on this thread). I have tried to upload their evidence letter below for any advice you can give on what I should be going back to POPLA with.

I already will question some of the stuff they have included in their letter. I will put together a letter and post here for final advice but in the meantime thought I’d let you see the letter so you can advise if their case is strong or as I suspect weak, for the most part – especially when they try to justify the PCN based on the Parking Eye v Beavis case – I’m sure their argument is incorrect but I would appreciate some advice on this as well.

The only thing I think might be okay is that they do seem to have authority to act on behalf of the landowner to issue PCNs, although it is not a contract they have submitted as evidence but an ‘authority letter’. I will try to upload this as well. The other thing I noticed about the signage is that the company registration number is printed incorrectly on their signs – can I point this out as breaching correct standards for signage? Also, they submitted photos of their signs in their evidence pack, but out of the 15 or so photos of signs in the car park, only one has the £85 charge shown on the sign – and it is not prominently displayed either, in relation to the size of the other text on the sign.

I also notice that there is a 30 minute free parking period allowed, so even though I paid for a 2 hour ticket, do you know if I can still include the 30 free minutes on top of the 2 hours in calculating time spent at the car park?

YJ68

Okay, not sure if this will work... I did some research about how to post images in this forum. I think if you copy and paste the links below into a browser it should take you to where you can view the images. Please let me know if this works (or not)!

i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%201_zps0fgddq5e.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%202_zpsds1g9s2f.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%203_zpsghvksoue.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%204_zpsajjh0ypv.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%205_zpsbua42bl6.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%206_zpsiv4777ky.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Page%207_zpstv55yx26.jpg

Coupon-mad

they submitted photos of their signs in their evidence pack, but out of the 15 or so photos of signs in the car park, only one has the £85 charge shown on the sign – and it is not prominently displayed either, in relation to the size of the other text on the sign.

You need to point that out in words of one syllable to POPLA who appear to have swallowed the PE v Beavis pill, so very obviously spoon-fed to them by...whoever they consulted. Maybe they sought Counsel advice, which would have cost a pretty penny.

http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/YJ68/media/Page%201_zps0fgddq5e.jpg.html

The above link shows all your scans. However it would be useful to see their pictures of 'machine two' and whether they've shown any signs nearby which have a readable £85 on them. You are saying ONLY the blue sign has £85 on it?

Because you have admitted to who was driving so can't use the POFA 2012, that signage with no mention of the £85 sum (plus the ambiguity of it offering 30 minutes free, which a driver would construe as the allowed grace period) is going to be your main rebuttal point here.

YJ68

Hi, you can see photos of the signs in the links below.

i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%201_zps1g4t3rzq.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%202_zpsu4ba3vvp.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%203_zpsdxqzbsfh.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%204_zpsn5onz9zn.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%205_zpsqh9zcpf3.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%206_zpseorhl3y0.jpg
i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s466/YJ68/Photo%20sheet%207_zpsiar6qz65.jpg

YJ68

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You need to point that out in words of one syllable to POPLA who appear to have swallowed the PE v Beavis pill, so very obviously spoon-fed to them by...whoever they consulted. It does make you wonder if POPLA asked the BPA/IPC, or LPC Law, or Wright Hassall for an interpretation of the Beavis case and how to apply it -

The argument about Beavis v Parking Eye being applicable in my case has been presented by Britannia in their Evidence Pack - are you saying that POPLA will just go along with what Britannia have stated and agree that Beavis v Parking Eye DOES apply in my case?

Coupon-mad

Yes. Which you will find out if you read the 'POPLA refused' threads recently, they are on the first 4 or 5 pages here.

If you are saying 90% of the signs do not mention £85 then you need to absolutely drum that home to POPLA to point out that a driver can, very likely, have driven in and only passed a sign with no mention of that sum. Therefore no contract can exist giving any knowledge to the driver about paying £85. No adequate notice is contrary to the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 (which says the parking charge itself - not just vague terms - must be adequately brought to the attention of the driver) and it's contrary to basic contract law.

And completely different from the Beavis case which partly hinged on prominent, clear signs throughout with £85 in large lettering.