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MSE News: Government refuses to budge on women's state pension changes
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WASPI started off as a handful of regular women against the great Government machine. The WASPS are still whining!!
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If they had thrown a free scraps to the hungry protestors then it might have fizzled out and some at least might be content that they got something. As it stands, the government defiance is working against them in getting rid of this annoying little problem.
If you throw scraps to one minority of whining individuals would that not encourage more whining from minorities with unrealistic demands?0 -
POPPYOSCAR wrote: »I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I have seen them in a whole new light over this and other things which have also been building up are making me think differently about them.
PR is a big thing for a Government, though they would never admit it. Same thing for politicians. All politicians are focussed on the next election. While its the nature of governments to play down and dismiss things that go against them, be it polls or campaigns, you can bet your life savings on the fact behind closed doors the wheels are turning to establish negative impact.
Thus WASPI has them rattled as we speak.
Its not any one of these campaigns etc that is the issue but it is the collective negativity that is created as a result, and may resurrect at election time.If you throw scraps to one minority of whining individuals would that not encourage more whining from minorities with unrealistic demands?
That's always going to be a balance. From the politicians perspective, their rationale will be how much damage can this group do. If the answer is little to minor then the next whining group will be an irrelevance.
It is not so much the whining group, it is the public sympathy or otherwise that will largely define the outcome.0 -
If they had thrown a free scraps to the hungry protestors then it might have fizzled out and some at least might be content that they got something. As it stands, the government defiance is working against them in getting rid of this annoying little problem.
The budget may change that. If the government are going to make any changes, it will be set up for maximum publicity and on their terms.
The chances of Labour/SNP pushing a bill from the opposition backbenches past a majority conservative government are remote. Any parliamentary movement on the subject will need to be because the government see political mileage from it.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that this may happen. It may actually be in WASPI's best interests for their supportive MPs to back off a bit as Osborne will not take any action if it makes him look weak and submissive to lightweight backbenchers.I work for a financial services intermediary specialising in the at-retirement market. I am not a financial adviser, and any comments represent my opinion only and should not be construed as advice or a recommendation0 -
I am one of those women who will have to wait an extra 6 years to receive my pension.
It is six years only if you include the changes legislated for in 1995.In principal I agree that men and women's pensions should be paid at the same age
Oddly, your position seems to be materially the same as supporting state pension equality, so long it doesn't affect yourself.but there should be some safety net for those who have had no time to prepare financially.
Nobody is left to starve.I have already paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension but this makes no difference.
Indeed it does not, because the link between contribution and entitlement is a weak one. It is possible to pay NI without gaining any particular entitlement in lots of scenarios - yours is not a particularly special one.I have also received a state pension forecast and under the new rules still wont have enough to get a full state pension.
Why - because you have not, in fact, 'paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension', or because you have been contracted out? If the former then your sense of entitlement is clearly misplaced; if the latter, then you have not lost anything you would have had before, and moreover, the fact has absolutely nothing to do with changes to the state pension age.Apparently this will be the case for the majority too.
Because lots of older workers have gold-plated final salary pensions, unlike younger private sector workers!What about those who are made redundant (an ever increasing possiblity in the current economic climate).
Where will they get a job at age 60+ which enables them to make up the pension shortfall?
Claim work age benefits.There is currently a massive furore taking place about the possibility of migrants having to wait 4 years before claiming in-work benefits. In comparison there's no concern at all for women in my predicament and the extra 6 year wait. Also, unlike migrants coming into the UK I have contributed taxes and national insurance for over 37 years. There also seems to be no shortage of goverment money for the foreign aid budget. While altruism is a worthy cause, governments need to start putting their own citizens first
Ah, one of the lesser-spotted right wing WASPIs! At least your xenophobia provides variety amongst the 'Tory this' and 'Tory that' I suppose. Personally I would much rather my taxes go to giving some nice middle class Syrian refugees a headstart than paying you to draw your state pension perhaps a decade (or more?) before I will be able to draw mine, assuming it still exists as a non-means tested benefit at that point.0 -
It will always be hypothetical what would have happened if they had focussed solely on the 2011 changes. The petition might not have got there. There would have been no debate and only a small minority would have heard of WASPI.
I only heard of them a few months ago but the campaign has been going since last April.
As it was, they focussed on 'the 1950s women', a demographic of 4 million for whom they sought financial restitution. They were active on the most popular social media sites (e.g. FB and Twitter) and, for example, had high profile financial websites such as MSE blasting out their support to a fifth of the UK population in one go. They still only got to not much more than 100k petitioners, in the 9 months between April and mid Jan. So if they slimmed it down to a more targeted niche group, I don't think it would have succeeded.As it stands WASPI v Government - WASPI has won to this point.
I expect Hitler said as much to his armies in 1944 and Kim Jong Un to this day tells his people that they, led by him the Supreme Leader, supported posthumously by his dad the Eternal President and his grandad the Eternal Leader are winning the race to be the best country in the world.
Those of us who see it as an unreasonable 'ask', and note that the government does not intend to do anything about the 'ask', would probably contend that WASPI are not 'winning'; by contrast, they are going to have to go back to the drawing board because getting their voice heard in Westminster Hall in December and February and in the Commons in January has not resulted in them actually getting the "fair result" for which they have been campaigned. Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.The WASPS are still whining!!Now it might be that the Government had hoped this would die out - it might be they expect this will die out. However, its just not happening. And all Governments know pensioners count for many of their likely votes.
So, no government can afford to annoy too many pensioners. Fortunately as pensioners and prospective pensioners span an age range from 50 to 100... while the demands of this particular WASPI group only covers a 10-year window within this age range and bending to their will would have resulted in higher taxes for the other 40-years of that age range (or higher taxes and NI for their kids and grandkids) it is not clear that the government must bend to that will.If they had thrown a free scraps to the hungry protestors then it might have fizzled out and some at least might be content that they got something. As it stands, the government defiance is working against them in getting rid of this annoying little problem.
Should we look at the Paris attacks and bend a bit to ISIL's will by putting Shariah law in place throughout London, to "give them some scraps" in the hope that the annoying problem would go away? Or does it throw up more problems in terms of the fact that if they got 10% of their ask they would still be moaning that the other 90% was unfulfilled, encouraging them to "campaign" harder for the rest of it. And prospective problems about who might ask for scraps next.0 -
The budget may change that. If the government are going to make any changes, it will be set up for maximum publicity and on their terms.
Oh absolutely. If they can't get this thing to go away at no cost, then the next best thing is to give it something that 'they had been planning to give all along' ... or something along those lines.The chances of Labour/SNP pushing a bill from the opposition backbenches past a majority conservative government are remote.
Add to that a weak opposition leader and the main opposition party members jostling for position waiting for the fall of its leader, is not the best time to be asking for something the government does not want to give.
That said, it is still pensioners and those old guys and gals are the ones the politicians are the ones they least one to vex!
They also might have an EU vote coming somewhere along the line and will want to keep as many on their side as poss.
The government don't want to give anything, but they can't get this thing out of their system easily so it then becomes an issue of how much damage this thing can do. That becomes the deciding factor.0 -
bowlhead99 wrote: »Yes, if they had focussed solely on the 2011 changes and the worst affected group (e.g. those 1953/54 women, it's unlikely that it would have garnered the necessary publicity.
Thus there would have been no chance of any changes to the 2011 policy. As it stands, there is a slim chance that something might change on that policy. The fat lady as not sung just yet ....bowlhead99 wrote: »I don't doubt that you, a supporter of the WASPI cause, together with other supporters of WASPI think that they are winning and will get there in the end.
Ah right. You know more than me about me then .... never knew I was a supporter of WASPI ... that's news to me. Any other news about me that I don't know about me?bowlhead99 wrote: »Those of us who see it as an unreasonable 'ask',
So, how then does such an unreasonable 'ask' get to the stage it has got to? As I have said many times, I have never thought the 1995 policy would be changed. The vast majority of people don't think that will happen. Yet this unreasonable 'ask' has secured two debates and has had a good deal of media coverage.
Usually anything that is so extreme or unreasonable barely sees the light of day. The Wasps are still flying as we speak. How come?bowlhead99 wrote: »not resulted in them actually getting the "fair result" for which they have been campaigned. Doesn't sound like a "win" to me.
but it would not sound like a win to you. Indeed getting a debate would not sound like a win. Getting media coverage would not sound like a win. Nothing would sound like a win.
The point is though, these ordinary gals have stirred up something against the mighty machine and are currently still standing. That's the win as it stands. The eventual outcome might not be what they want, but as a campaign getting something into the public domain it has been successful - not that you would see that of course.bowlhead99 wrote: »Yes, it is a standing joke among us 'young uns' that the government will listen disproportionately to old people because the 'grey vote' has significant influence. Because while us kids are going out being productive with our day jobs to improve our own lives in spite of whomever is in political power,
Bit of news for you ..... they old un's were not born old ... they used to be young un's one time too .... out there working to improve their lives while them older folk done just that and toddled down to the polling station not having a job or anything to get in the way ... and if the weather was good on the day ... even more of those old bob's and biddies came out ....
Bit more new for you ... and your young un mates ..... some of you will get to be old un's one day ..... and will have loads of time to toddle down to the polling booth .... if you live close enough you might even do it in your slippers ....bowlhead99 wrote: »As mentioned by others, if you don't believe in a principle it is not necessarily helpful to pay out compensation to make them go away, because it will only encourage other bottom feeders and their ambulance chasers in due course.
Well they might be hoping WASPI gets run over by an ambulance or some such ..... what you can guarantee is that they want WASPI to buzz off ... for good.bowlhead99 wrote: »Should we look at the Paris attacks and bend a bit to ISIL's will by putting Shariah law in place throughout London, to "give them some scraps" in the hope that the annoying problem would go away?
Entirely different situation .. and indeed perhaps a slightly distasteful comparison.0 -
You always know when a poster has lost the plot when they start making reference to Hitler!0
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POPPYOSCAR wrote: »You always know when a poster has lost the plot when they start making reference to Hitler!
Well many younger ones may not have full appreciation of the distain - however, such scenarios do not have any place in comparisons or discussions on issues where there is not even the remotest connection.0
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