Platforms - stay with HL or switch?

Lois_and_CK

Between us, CK and I have one SIPP and one S&S ISA, both with HL. They're fairly small amounts at the moment - £40k and £10k respectively - but we're starting to pay in larger amounts of money to them.

We're also wanting to open another SIPP and another S&S ISA, so we each have a SIPP and a S&S ISA. And with transferring some ex-workplace pensions plus additional investing over the next ten years or so, we're thinking we might have collectively around £400k across the four accounts.

I've been reading Monevator, especially the article she platform choices. I think my understanding is that (but please correct me if I've misunderstood) for low investments such as we currently have, the platform fees aren't going to make much difference. But as our investments get bigger and reach the desired £400k across four 'pots' in the next ten years, then the platform fees start making an impact. Have I understood that right?

I've looked at Halifax and Charles Stanley. I like HL's website and also their responsiveness when we phone them. I'm wondering whether it's worth switching the two accounts we have to another platform plus open the two new accounts at the same time with the new platform, or whether the difference in fees on £400k would be negligible, or if the extra costs would be small enough that they're worth it because I like HL.

The more I try to work it out, the more muddled I'm becoming.

darkidoe

Are you investing in etfs, mutual funds or shares? I think various platforms have different price structures, so what you invest in would determine what is the most cost effective method of holding them.

dunstonh

I've been reading Monevator, especially the article she platform choices. I think my understanding is that (but please correct me if I've misunderstood) for low investments such as we currently have, the platform fees aren't going to make much difference. But as our investments get bigger and reach the desired £400k across four 'pots' in the next ten years, then the platform fees start making an impact. Have I understood that right?

Most platforms tier the charges on your total holdings on platform. HL do not. They tier it by product. Some platforms tier it by family members total holdings.

So, £400k split say 100k over pension/ISA each across husband and wife (4 products) would be treated as £100k for tiering at HL but £200k elsewhere (if no family linking) or £400k if family linking allowed.

HL are not cheap. 0.45% where others would be in the 0.25%-0.32% range. There are also some with fixed charging.

Lois_and_CK

Thank you both. Sorry, I forgot to include the products. At the moment we have VLS 80 in the SIPP, and VLS 60 in the ISA.

I'm considering L&G Multi-asset 5 or 6 for the two new accounts.

bowlhead99

If it's all in 'funds' then (as opposed to shares or ITs or ETFs where the 0.45% annual fee is capped), HL will be pretty expensive, especially if it is held in multiple accounts and multiple people's names.

The platform fee is pretty much costing you half a percent on all your money - which, as you say, is not too much when you only have a relatively small amount invested, and pays for good customer service, but when you end up with £400k invested with them you will be giving them a couple of thousand quid to hold your funds every year.

By contrast, Youinvest for example is just 0.2% plus £100 a year for admin of a SIPP account and some transaction fees when you have transactions, which are quite low if you use the regular investing scheme. Some platforms are 0% plus bigger transaction fees or setup costs; some platforms have no transaction fees, bigger percentages but give a break on the percentages for combined family assets... etc etc. So you should absolutely shop around based on your projected numbers and investment types.

Not all providers carry every single class of every single fund that's out there, and some have their favourites that they are promoting with a discounted class to help make their platform fees not seem so painfully expensive. When looking for the L&G multi asset series a year or so ago on HL we couldn't find it, so went with Blackrock Consensus 85 (under 0.1% after HL discount) and a small investment in L&G Property PAIF on the side to top up the property piece (which would otherwise have only been about 2%). It will probably do the job but I would have preferred to just get the single fund and have the manager do the rebalancing and determine the asset mix as he goes.

That was for a family member who has an account with them - I don't so couldn't log in to HL just now to check, but on their public website fund search tool I still couldn't see L&G multi 6.

Lois_and_CK

dunstonh wrote: »

So, £400k split say 100k over pension/ISA each across husband and wife (4 products) would be treated as £100k for tiering at HL but £200k elsewhere (if no family linking) or £400k if family linking allowed.

To make sure I've understood that correctly - HL do not have any kind of family linking, so each product we have, for the sake of argument £100k in one SIPP, will incur fees separately?

Lois_and_CK

bowlhead99 wrote: »

If it's all in 'funds' then (as opposed to shares or ITs or ETFs where the 0.45% annual fee is capped), HL will be pretty expensive, especially if it is held in multiple accounts and multiple people's names.

The platform fee is pretty much costing you half a percent on all your money - which, as you say, is not too much when you only have a relatively small amount invested, and pays for good customer service, but when you end up with £400k invested with them you will be giving them a couple of thousand quid to hold your funds every year.

Thanks - this is what I was worried about with HL as our investments grow. So having x2 SIPPS and x2 S&S ISAs with one product in each (VLS, L&G Multi-asset) with HL, once our investments start to reach the £400k point then we'll be looking at a couple of thousand a year in fees.

bowlhead99 wrote: »

By contrast, Youinvest for example is just 0.2% plus £100 a year for admin of a SIPP account and some transaction fees when you have transactions

Okay so it seems it's worth switching platforms then. What is Youinvest like from a user perspective? Is it anywhere like HL for user friendliness? How about Charles Stanley or Halifax? From the Monevator article they seemed reasonable on costs as well.

bowlhead99 wrote: »

When looking for the L&G multi asset series a year or so ago on HL we couldn't find it.
That was for a family member who has an account with them - I don't so couldn't log in to HL just now to check, but on their public website fund search tool I still couldn't see L&G multi 6.

Ah, okay, in which case the above is a moot point if I wanted to go with the L&G Multi-asset! I'll have to go with a different platform than HL in any case.

Thanks so much for your help.

le_loup

Please check the quality of the provider you change to before you change. Some providers are very cheap but so is their service!

dunstonh

Lois_and_CK wrote: »

To make sure I've understood that correctly - HL do not have any kind of family linking, so each product we have, for the sake of argument £100k in one SIPP, will incur fees separately?

They have no linking of any type (that makes them almost unique). Account linking is most common. i.e. £100k in ISA and £100k in pension would see most platforms treat the charging as having £200k. Hl treat it as £100k as its account level, not client level.

Family linking is less common. Seems mainly to be on the intermediary side However, it is useful for family members who invest.

george4064

dunstonh wrote: »

They have no linking of any type (that makes them almost unique). Account linking is most common. i.e. £100k in ISA and £100k in pension would see most platforms treat the charging as having £200k. Hl treat it as £100k as its account level, not client level.

Family linking is less common. Seems mainly to be on the intermediary side However, it is useful for family members who invest.

HL do let you link accounts together, but the ONLY benefit it brings is that once logged into the 'master account' you can quickly switch to a linked account without having to log out and back in again.

bowlhead99

Lois_and_CK wrote: »

Okay so it seems it's worth switching platforms then. What is Youinvest like from a user perspective? Is it anywhere like HL for user friendliness? How about Charles Stanley or Halifax? From the Monevator article they seemed reasonable on costs as well.

I've only had my SIPP with youinvest since transferring over to them from an ex employer pension in 2012 but no issues with the online or over-the-phone service. AJ Bell who run it also administer the pension wrapper for a variety of other groups too, but the front end trading/platform service and price structure differs depending who you go with. The youinvest site is friendly enough - I have a variety of shares, funds and ITs and use their "regular investment" service to buy each month (easy to change or cancel what's scheduled to be bought next). To be honest though, if your game plan is to buy and hold one fund, there is not much to go wrong with any of the platforms you mention, so it just comes down to what price structure works for you.

If you have over £10k to transfer to youinvest, someone could make £100 by referring you, so if you are going to move to them and don't have any mates using them it would be worth searching on the referrals board for a new "friend" who would split that cash with you. Other groups have intro deals from time, especially approaching "ISA season" But don't move to a platform drawn in by a sparkly intro offer for a few quid, if it's going to cost you that money back and more in extra lifetime costs over their rivals.