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Stop the Bullies

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With the help from folk on this site, I was able to find out much about how to look up laws related to alleged parking offences and how large companies will take advantage of our own ignorance and sense of fair play.

This has been a revelation and helped me to fight another company....a company that looks after the underground system in Copenhagen. They are busy screwing the tourist with a confusing underground map that has zones 1,2,3,4 on the left hand side and 1,3,4 if you are travelling to stations on the right hand side. So one purchases a 2 zone ticket if travelling from zone 1 to zone 3 on the right hand side.....wrong! This converts to a penalty fare of £75 for fare evasion. Additionally there are routes that you can take without ever sighting a ticket machine (there are no ticket offices).

The Danish equivalent to "Joe Bloggs" sighs and says this is a regular occurrence to foreigners!

So there are 2 ways to appeal....the ignorant way or you find out about the EU regulations and throw the whole regs at them.....Having done the latter and requesting for FOI, I found out the company is a private company and doing the same old thing as the parking companies.....a speculative charge.

The train company sent me "evidence" of "information points" that I should have sought advice from and then told me to take it up with the ombudsman. If you have to go thru the ombudsman it is another £150.

Instead I sent the transport minister evidence of corrupt practices within their transport system and the deliberate avoidance of the transport system to provide unsuspecting victims any information at all (I had requested stats about the number of tourists that have been fined and how much revenue they make from these tourists).

I have not heard from either the transport company for the last 3 months..........I have been told if you hear nothing over an 18 month period you can expect that nothing will happen.

It is very unlikely I will ever enter Denmark again as their transport system left a sour taste in my mouth and there are far more interesting countries to go to rather than one that allow a private company to publically screw the tourist.
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Trying to educate people to stop littering the country side in trail races!!!
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Comments

  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
    Just to be clear, as you may be confused (I don't know Denmark)


    It is perfectly legal for a private company to be employed on behalf of a public body to issue real, genuine, penalty charges.


    It is not legal for a public body to issue penalty charges on private land.


    If a private company issues an invoice for parking on private land, that is an invoice.


    And ofcourse a public authority can directly employ anyone to act on legislation.


    In your example I would suggest:


    You are using Public Services (owned by the state), operated by a private company who are paid to do so by the government. A Quasi Private/Public partnership.


    The equivalent examples could be G4S providing security in English court houses.


    This could all be moot of course, as this is Denmark. However the principle you used is questionable.
  • gertysingh
    gertysingh Posts: 286 Forumite
    edited 1 February 2016 at 6:08PM
    My analogy is probably suspect :) .....however the principle of ensuring your rights is the same. Innocent until proven guilty if the laws determine us to be guilty. The car park saga helped open my eyes to what companies will try to get away with as well as that before you appeal anything, find out the rules and regulations of the land.

    So with the train company the private company insinuated it did not have to follow EU regulations. However it is acting on behalf of the public authority, so I assumed (perhaps wrongly) they come under the same EU regulations. The EU regulations indicate that a certain amount of FOI must be released by the company if requested so that the passenger can be on the same playing field as the private company.

    If the private company is going to issue tickets on behalf of a public authority then isn't the transport minister responsible for ensuring the EU regs are followed?

    Just so you can see the screwy map am talking about
    http://intl.m.dk/~/media/Metro/Content/Grafik/rutekort_intl_m_tekst.png?w=744&h=480&as=1
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    Trying to educate people to stop littering the country side in trail races!!!
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  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
    Absolutely correct on the FOI stuff, just wanted to explain the analogy :)
  • So if a Private Parking Company charging for an overstay in a services that public money was used to create, what is the PPC's charge - a speculative invoice or a penalty charge?

    Hence if the Private Train Company says it does not have to come under the EU regs because it is a PTC but it looks after a public service, is their "penalty charge" a speculative invoice or a penalty charge?

    just to be sure I've got my analogy wrong ;)
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    Trying to educate people to stop littering the country side in trail races!!!
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  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    gertysingh wrote: »
    Having looked at that map, it can be redrawn something like:
    Untitled_zpszmllb9tn.png
    I feel you are perhaps too hung up on the London concept of zones being concentric.

    Ok, maybe they could've made it even simpler by having the zone numbers in order, but looks fine to me.

    If London was on the coast, like Copenhagen is, then maybe the London zone arrangement might've been somewhat different.
  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    gertysingh wrote: »
    Hence if the Private Train Company says it does not have to come under the EU regs because it is a PTC but it looks after a public service, is their "penalty charge" a speculative invoice or a penalty charge?
    It could be either.

    For example, there is specific legislation that allows 'private' Uk train operating companies to charge Penalty Fares - a Transport Act, if I recall correctly.
    Without knowing the Danish legislation, it is difficult to answer your question.
  • Kernow666
    Kernow666 Posts: 3,480 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker I've been Money Tipped!
    my experience of this in foreign countries is that the inspectors let the tourists off
    "If I know I'm going crazy, I must not be insane"
  • wealdroam wrote: »
    I feel you are perhaps too hung up on the London concept of zones being concentric.

    Ok, maybe they could've made it even simpler by having the zone numbers in order, but looks fine to me.

    If London was on the coast, like Copenhagen is, then maybe the London zone arrangement might've been somewhat different.

    Not just my concept.....think there are a lot of people having problems with that concept. I have tested the map on different cultures, different groups. I could sell me stats to the transport minister. The expectation will be zone numbers in order.
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    Trying to educate people to stop littering the country side in trail races!!!
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  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Out of interest, I've just looked at another Copenhagen zone map.

    There seem to be a huge number of zones.

    Your expectations, and those of others, need resetting. ;)

    I'd avoid travelling in Copenhagen again if I were you.
  • Kernow666 wrote: »
    my experience of this in foreign countries is that the inspectors let the tourists off

    Only because it is too expensive to chase them.

    But I don't like bullies and the ticket inspector still issued the ticket and I have gone through the hoops only because I don't want to see others being stupidly charged.

    You will only find a few cases of 'foreigners' communicated that they have been let off the charge. It is just like playing the jackpot machines but a poorer chance of actually being told you have been let off.

    Many will pay the charge, just like the charge for an overstay in a free car park. Less than 1% of folk who receive a car park charge will actually fight the charge (statistic on the BPA's annual report).
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    Trying to educate people to stop littering the country side in trail races!!!
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