PCN from June

LittleBigE

Good morning,

I pay a monthly fee to park in a private car park near my work. I have today (26th January) received a notice to keeper letter from the company that manage the car park regarding a PCN dated in June 2015 based on not displaying a valid permit. I have not received any correspondence prior to this (no notice to keeper after the invoice being issued etc).

My concern is that I do have a contract in place with the landowner and part of this is to display a valid permit, however, the photos attached to the letter received do not clearly show the permit that was affixed to my vehicle at the time of the PCN being issued. The landowner also states that they will not intervene in any dispute over parking.

The letter also states that I cannot appeal this as the window from appeal is 21 days from the issue date of the PCN. The company is question does state that appeals may be referred to IAS.

Should I just send a standard appeals letter to this company and go form there?

My basis would be due payment made to landowner and the vehicle has a valid permit (the photos do not show otherwise) and I do not know who was driving the vehicle at the time?

Any help would be appreciated!

The_Deep

They are members of the IAS, parking industry bottom feeders, and very unlikely to take you to court as you have paid, they and the landowners have lost nothing, and Beavis v PE is not relevant. Ignore unless they are daft enough to issus a CC claim.

ManxRed

So presumably the permit is displayed in a particular place, and none of their photos are of that particular area of the car?

Take your own pic showing the permit displayed, and then send them a letter (cc'd to the landowner) inviting them to commence court proceedings, and that you will join the landowner to the court claim. Show them copies of your photo, and all theirs pointing out that not one single photo of theirs is of the area of the car where the permit is displayed.

It might be worth contacting the Parking Prankster, this might be an interesting blog.

LittleBigE

There's the rub ManxRed

One of the photos is of the windscreen and you can see the tax disc holder that contains the permit but the permit is blurry and cannot be clearly read.

A photo showing the current permit along with a letter stating that all contractually due payments have been made may be the way I go.

ManxRed

Make sure that you let the Landowner know that he is jointly and severally liable for the actions of his Agents and will be included in any action, including any claim for damages or costs on your part.

LittleBigE

Afternoon,

Just a quick followup to the above. I sent a letter, ccing the landowner, advising various points.

Outside of POFA notification period.
No picture of "invalid permit".
Due contractual payments made.
Unfair charges.

I have now received a reply stating that this is a non POFA claim. My understanding is that I should now advise that all liability therefore lies with the driver and that I was not driving?

I have also received a letter from a debt collection agent (adding £60 to the charge) quoting the Beavis decision. SHould I just deal with the parking cowboys and the land owner?

I'm happy to push this as far as I need to but I'm going to be applying for a mortgage shortly and need to ensure that I'm doing it correctly and not going to have a mark on my file.

dazster

LittleBigE wrote: »

I have now received a reply stating that this is a non POFA claim. My understanding is that I should now advise that all liability therefore lies with the driver and that I was not driving?

You could do this but Skippy the IAS assessor will simply presume you are lying.

What exactly does your contract with the landowner say about permits, and does it say anything about £100 charges on top of your monthly parking fee?

Herzlos

Ignore the debt collector entirely, they can't do anything.

Send the PPC/Landowner a response along the lines of

"Thanks for the information. I look forward to seeing you in court".

There's no need to elaborate further as they only want your money.

Of course without using POFA, they can only claim against the driver (who they assume is the keeper, to which they'll reference some totally unrelated case law about a hit-and-run driver who says they are the only one with the keys and there was forensic evidence). As this happened 8 months ago, as keeper, you honestly can't remember the incident or who was driving. Since this is the first you heard of it, you can't be expected to have noted the details.

You can also point out that the permit (which they have a blurry photo of) was in fact valid, and ask them to prove otherwise (which they can't). But keep all of that for any pre-court communication. It's pretty unlikely they'll escalate that far.

Coupon-mad

LittleBigE wrote: »

I'm happy to push this as far as I need to but I'm going to be applying for a mortgage shortly and need to ensure that I'm doing it correctly and not going to have a mark on my file.

A debt collector cannot mark your credit file; this is not a real debt and there is no default in any credit agreement on your part. You can't get a CCJ from a debt collector like this - let them write...however see below due to your change of address later this year.

The only way a parking ticket like this can end up in a CCJ would be if you ignored court papers (or had moved and missed them) and then the PPC could win by default. Or if you defended but lost at a hearing and then after judgment, YOU refused to pay. Not happening is it?

Personally all the time this is only debt collector letters I would collect them each month and wait until you move house. Then email DRPlus (I assume it is them, or is it ZZPS?) and copy in the PPC and the landowner. Give your new address and remind them you are the appellant registered keeper but were never informed about the PCN, let alone allowed a fair chance to appeal. Remind them that you never received any correspondence prior to the latest 2016 letters from debt collectors (no notice to keeper after the invoice being issued etc). and as such this means you are not liable as keeper.

You do not know who parked the car all those months ago and no assumption can be made in the absence of any evidence. So, any more debt collector letters or contact demanding any sum over this non-event will be considered harassment of a person who cannot be liable and who disputes any 'debt'. State that any court proceedings will be vigorously defended and the claim would be vexatious and unreasonable in view of the lack of service of any Notice to Keeper, let alone any PCN.

Tell them they have no cause of action and no prospects of success and finish by reiterating, if they believe they have a case against a keeper under these circumstances, then they MUST use your new address for service of court paperwork.

That way, when you move you know they *have* to use your new address. And you can ask for a read receipt of the emails and keep copies (better than posting a letter).

If it is DRPlus then the email addy is:

info@drpl.co.uk

LittleBigE

Thanks Everybody.

I appreciate your time and effort.

The Debt agent is ZZPS.

Coupon-mad

OK, not sure about an email addy for them. Wright Hassall letters normally follow in this letter chain and need a careful response and you may have to use snail mail.