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Paying for property without keys
greensalad
Posts: 2,530 Forumite
This has been a rollercoaster week. Please bear with me.
Two weeks ago we viewed a rental property. Called up the day after and put an offer for full rental asking price. LA ran through some financial details with me and I confirmed both of our salaries. I am a contractor, I only started my business in October 2015, so I told the LA this. They said my partners salary was enough for affordability so they had no issue renting to us and not referencing me at all. We put down £500 to secure the property.
A week goes by and my partner gets some requests from his employer to share his details and agrees. Everything seems to be going through OK.
On Wednesday, I receive referencing forms out of the blue. I had been told I was not being referenced. This is a full week through the whole process and they have just decided to reference me. They don't let me know why, I just receive a form and am expected to fill it in. Not wanting to hold anything up, I fill it in.
They email later that day to tell us that check-in has been booked for 25th January (today) so only 2 working days away. They ask us to sign the tenancy agreement and pay the sum, which we do. At this point we believe we have passed referencing and secured the property. Perhaps this is naive but if you fill in all the paperwork, and someone gets back to you saying "OK! Check-in is booked and here's the agreement!" you presume you're ready to go.
On Friday, we receive a call stating that his salary is lower than we quoted on the phone. This is because my partner has earnt £8000 minimum in overtime (not guaranteed but likely, as evidenced by previous payslips) for the last 2.5 years. They said his actual salary is £8000 shy of the financial requirement. I ask if they are willing to reference me if I can provide payslips, contracts and more. They say no. My boyfriend sends a payslip this time with his extra overtime and they accept his income is enough and say it's OK
However, because we still have 2 months left on our current place, they want us to get guarantors to cover those two months. We ask my grandparents and spend the weekend filling in forms. It turns out my grandparents income is just £1,500 shy of the total affordability required. However I also provide a bank statement showing they have £505,000 in the bank. But they won't accept this to allow them to be guarantors. My grandparents are retired so the bulk of their wealth is savings, not income. Yet they still have £41,000 in income a year which is good going for retired people, and half a million cash in the bank. But it's still not accepted. I just think that's crazy.
Now here comes the real issue. They want us to pay rent from today despite us not having the keys, or knowing if we have the property. Every time we believe we're closer to finding a solution something blows up in our face*. I don't see how it's fair for the letting agent to expect us to pay rent from today without releasing the keys to us. Can they truly do this?
*As I'm sure you'll want to know what has blown up in our face recently, this morning we were called to say we could attend the check-in and I then pointed out that we hadn't secured the property yet, so why were we still checking in? They said check-in had to be carried out today or nothing. They did the check-in without us even after I complained. They've now charged us for check-in and we still haven't got keys. We thought we were getting closer as my grandparents offered to stump up 2 months rent for us yet we're then told my partner HR department hasn't got back to them. This is despite them telling me his salary last week down the phone, so they must have it. Turns out they need his company to confirm his salary + overtime to prove it matches the payslip he sent. Fine, but why didn't they do this last week? The letting agent only noticed THIS AFTERNOON that it hadn't been received AFTER telling my partner he could go down to the office to collect keys. This whole thing is a shambles. We've paid £540 in "admin" for nothing but poor service.
Two weeks ago we viewed a rental property. Called up the day after and put an offer for full rental asking price. LA ran through some financial details with me and I confirmed both of our salaries. I am a contractor, I only started my business in October 2015, so I told the LA this. They said my partners salary was enough for affordability so they had no issue renting to us and not referencing me at all. We put down £500 to secure the property.
A week goes by and my partner gets some requests from his employer to share his details and agrees. Everything seems to be going through OK.
On Wednesday, I receive referencing forms out of the blue. I had been told I was not being referenced. This is a full week through the whole process and they have just decided to reference me. They don't let me know why, I just receive a form and am expected to fill it in. Not wanting to hold anything up, I fill it in.
They email later that day to tell us that check-in has been booked for 25th January (today) so only 2 working days away. They ask us to sign the tenancy agreement and pay the sum, which we do. At this point we believe we have passed referencing and secured the property. Perhaps this is naive but if you fill in all the paperwork, and someone gets back to you saying "OK! Check-in is booked and here's the agreement!" you presume you're ready to go.
On Friday, we receive a call stating that his salary is lower than we quoted on the phone. This is because my partner has earnt £8000 minimum in overtime (not guaranteed but likely, as evidenced by previous payslips) for the last 2.5 years. They said his actual salary is £8000 shy of the financial requirement. I ask if they are willing to reference me if I can provide payslips, contracts and more. They say no. My boyfriend sends a payslip this time with his extra overtime and they accept his income is enough and say it's OK
However, because we still have 2 months left on our current place, they want us to get guarantors to cover those two months. We ask my grandparents and spend the weekend filling in forms. It turns out my grandparents income is just £1,500 shy of the total affordability required. However I also provide a bank statement showing they have £505,000 in the bank. But they won't accept this to allow them to be guarantors. My grandparents are retired so the bulk of their wealth is savings, not income. Yet they still have £41,000 in income a year which is good going for retired people, and half a million cash in the bank. But it's still not accepted. I just think that's crazy.
Now here comes the real issue. They want us to pay rent from today despite us not having the keys, or knowing if we have the property. Every time we believe we're closer to finding a solution something blows up in our face*. I don't see how it's fair for the letting agent to expect us to pay rent from today without releasing the keys to us. Can they truly do this?
*As I'm sure you'll want to know what has blown up in our face recently, this morning we were called to say we could attend the check-in and I then pointed out that we hadn't secured the property yet, so why were we still checking in? They said check-in had to be carried out today or nothing. They did the check-in without us even after I complained. They've now charged us for check-in and we still haven't got keys. We thought we were getting closer as my grandparents offered to stump up 2 months rent for us yet we're then told my partner HR department hasn't got back to them. This is despite them telling me his salary last week down the phone, so they must have it. Turns out they need his company to confirm his salary + overtime to prove it matches the payslip he sent. Fine, but why didn't they do this last week? The letting agent only noticed THIS AFTERNOON that it hadn't been received AFTER telling my partner he could go down to the office to collect keys. This whole thing is a shambles. We've paid £540 in "admin" for nothing but poor service.
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Comments
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greensalad wrote: »This has been a rollercoaster week. Please bear with me.
Two weeks ago we viewed a rental property. Called up the day after and put an offer for full rental asking price. LA ran through some financial details with me and I confirmed both of our salaries. I am a contractor, I only started my business in October 2015, so I told the LA this. They said my partners salary was enough for affordability so they had no issue renting to us and not referencing me at all. We put down £500 to secure the property.
A week goes by and my partner gets some requests from his employer to share his details and agrees. Everything seems to be going through OK.
On Wednesday, I receive referencing forms out of the blue. I had been told I was not being referenced. This is a full week through the whole process and they have just decided to reference me. They don't let me know why, I just receive a form and am expected to fill it in. Not wanting to hold anything up, I fill it in.
They email later that day to tell us that check-in has been booked for 25th January (today) so only 2 working days away. They ask us to sign the tenancy agreement and pay the sum, which we do. At this point we believe we have passed referencing and secured the property. Perhaps this is naive but if you fill in all the paperwork, and someone gets back to you saying "OK! Check-in is booked and here's the agreement!" you presume you're ready to go.
On Friday, we receive a call stating that his salary is lower than we quoted on the phone. This is because my partner has earnt £8000 minimum in overtime (not guaranteed but likely, as evidenced by previous payslips) for the last 2.5 years. They said his actual salary is £8000 shy of the financial requirement. I ask if they are willing to reference me if I can provide payslips, contracts and more. They say no. My boyfriend sends a payslip this time with his extra overtime and they accept his income is enough and say it's OK
- Whilst interesting the above is mostly irrelevant. The Only really relevant part is you signed a contract. Did you keep a copy?
However, because we still have 2 months left on our current place, - irrelevant. Your contract with a 3rd party is not relevant to this contract. they want us to get guarantors to cover those two months. - Say no? We ask my grandparents and spend the weekend filling in forms. It turns out my grandparents income is just £1,500 shy of the total affordability required. - For 2 months rent?! However I also provide a bank statement showing they have £505,000 in the bank. - wow, can I have a copy too? I mean I'm more trustworthy than most agents... But they won't accept this to allow them to be guarantors. - great, you have a signed contract. My grandparents are retired so the bulk of their wealth is savings, not income. Yet they still have £41,000 in income a year which is good going for retired people, and half a million cash in the bank. But it's still not accepted. I just think that's crazy. - For 2 months rent?! you realise this isn't for two months rent don't you? Gurantorships are executed as a deed for the duration of your tenancy?
Now here comes the real issue. They want us to pay rent from today - great. PAY IT, now. Straight away. despite us not having the keys, or knowing if we have the property. - once you pay rent, the contract is confirmed and they are over a barrel. Every time we believe we're closer to finding a solution something blows up in our face*. I don't see how it's fair for the letting agent to expect us to pay rent from today without releasing the keys to us. - keys? you're worried about some bits of metal?! FGS. must contact education secretary - add basic tenancy law and basic contract law to the curriculum. Can they truly do this?
*As I'm sure you'll want to know what has blown up in our face recently, this morning we were called to say we could attend the check-in and I then pointed out that we hadn't secured the property yet, so why were we still checking in? They said check-in had to be carried out today or nothing. They did the check-in without us even after I complained. - irrelevant. They've now charged us for check-in good-. and we still haven't got keys. - forget the keys. We thought we were getting closer as my grandparents offered to stump up 2 months rent for us yet we're then told my partner HR department hasn't got back to them. This is despite them telling me his salary last week down the phone, so they must have it. Turns out they need his company to confirm his salary + overtime to prove it matches the payslip he sent. Fine, but why didn't they do this last week? The letting agent only noticed THIS AFTERNOON that it hadn't been received AFTER telling my partner he could go down to the office to collect keys. This whole thing is a shambles. We've paid £540 in "admin" for nothing but poor service.
Pay the rent now. once it's accepted, you have a cast iron valid contract!
FGS forget the keys for just 1 minute.0 -
TL: DR for everyone else.
OP offered a tenancy, asked to pay rent and is concerned about lack of keys.
If OP pays the rent (has signed tenancy agreement already) Op will have a valid contract with which to then get the keys.
Summary: State education should include basic contract and tenancy law.0 -
As Malcolm Tucker would say, "it's an omnishambles."
The referencing. Suggesting your grandparents act as guarantors for just 2 months (yeah, that's how it works LA.) Expecting you to pay rent for a property you can't even get get in to.
I would complain (in writing) to the LA and escalate it with whichever redress scheme they are registered with if necessary. I wonder if the landlord knows what a bunch of clowns he/she is employing.
Complaints about letting agencies.0 -
1) do you have a copy of the contract, signed by the landlord or his agent?
2) have you paid rent?
If answer to either is 'yes', then you demand keys, (from whatever date is on the contract) and if not forthcoming, or delivered late (such that your access is delayed) you write to the LL (at the address on the contract) requesting
a) immediate release of keys and
b) compensation for breach of contact eg your hotel bill
Though as you seem to also have a tenancy for 2 more months, you won't really suffer a financial loss. In that case ask for the tenancy start date to be amended.
In writing.(not text, facebook, email)0 -
As Malcolm Tucker would say, "it's an omnishambles." - Im sure you're missing a few choice words!!
The referencing. Suggesting your grandparents act as guarantors for just 2 months (yeah, that's how it works LA.) Expecting you to pay rent for a property you can't even get get in to.
I would complain (in writing) to the LA and escalate it with whichever redress scheme they are registered with if necessary. I wonder if the landlord knows what a bunch of clowns he/she is employing.
Complaints about letting agencies.
I still think the OP should pay the rent now. Contract deemed accepted by virtue of rent being accepted.0 -
OK, thanks for your messages everyone! Let me try and clear things up. Though this has allayed some fears.
1) I'm aware the guarantors are for the whole period of the tenancy. What I meant to say is the reason they wanted guarantors was because of the 2 month overlap thing. If we left out current place this week, we wouldn't need guarantors.
2) We have signed a tenancy agreement (docusign) and I've downloaded a version but we have yet to see the LL's signature on it. This is actually how I found out that we weren't getting keys. I called to ask where the LL's signature was and when we'd be getting it (knowing as soon as I had the doc I was in a better place) and was THEN told this would be provided once we did the key-swap. So as far as I know, we haven't got a signed contract.
3) We have paid the first month's rent, deposit, "admin fees", referencing fees and check-in fees already.
4) The reason I'm concerned about keys is that we don't have access to a property we're now paying rent for. Today would have been our first day, and we cannot access the property. This leaves me feeling uneasy. When I told the LA I was unhappy with this she said the LL has to be paid and it's not the LL's fault we've taken so long to be referenced, making out it's MY fault for "lying" to them about my partner's income. I did no such thing. I simply told them the income he earnt last year, which is a little more than the year before and will be more this year too.0 -
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greensalad wrote: »OK, thanks for your messages everyone! Let me try and clear things up. Though this has allayed some fears.
1) I'm aware the guarantors are for the whole period of the tenancy. What I meant to say is the reason they wanted guarantors was because of the 2 month overlap thing. If we left out current place this week, we wouldn't need guarantors.
2) We have signed a tenancy agreement (docusign) and I've downloaded a version but we have yet to see the LL's signature on it. This is actually how I found out that we weren't getting keys. I called to ask where the LL's signature was and when we'd be getting it (knowing as soon as I had the doc I was in a better place) and was THEN told this would be provided once we did the key-swap. So as far as I know, we haven't got a signed contract.
3) We have paid the first month's rent, deposit, "admin fees", referencing fees and check-in fees already.
4) The reason I'm concerned about keys is that we don't have access to a property we're now paying rent for. Today would have been our first day, and we cannot access the property. This leaves me feeling uneasy. When I told the LA I was unhappy with this she said the LL has to be paid and it's not the LL's fault we've taken so long to be referenced, making out it's MY fault for "lying" to them about my partner's income. I did no such thing. I simply told them the income he earnt last year, which is a little more than the year before and will be more this year too.
Whether the LL signs or not, you have a valid contract.
Now just demand your keys, letter written to the LLs address.
Something like
Dear X,
We are your new tenants, but your agents have failed to provide the keys. I'm sure this is an oversight, but wanted to make you aware that this is a breach of contract and you may be liable to costs if the situation is not rectified immediately.
Kind regards
A & B0 -
greensalad wrote: »Is it a valid contract if I've yet to see the other party's signature?
Yes.
The contract is offered by the other party.
It is therefore accepted that the party offering the contract would not disagree with it's contents (since they wrote it!)
By accepting rent, the contract is definitely accepted. (it may well be without rent, but this clinches it)0 -
Thanks for the advice guys.
We're not going to be able to collect the keys tonight anyway as their office will be closing before we can get there, but I will call tomorrow to let them know I'm sending a letter to demand keys.
Maybe we should just get a locksmith round if they don't hand them over.
My preference would still be that we pay rent from the day we gain access. It doesn't seem fair to pay rent on somewhere you can't get into. Maybe I should put forward to them that the tenancy agreement must change, but does the contract-signing then lose it's legitimacy if I contend the start date?0
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