problems with nationwide flexdirect switch

grumbler

masonic wrote: »

... the direct debit must have been transferred as part of the switch because there is no other way it could have appeared on the new account.

We don't know this for sure. I guess if I instruct the originator to set a DD and then switch the account before it was set up, it will appear on the new account. I'd be surprised if the switching procedure didn't anticipate such situations.

tg99

I switched to NW under the RAF offer last October with my two newly-created DD mandates only showing on my donor account a couple of days before the switch started and the first payments not being taken until after the switch had completed. I received the £100 incentive as expected given I had complied with the DD requirement in the T&C.

Ken68

Thank you for the alert Jam 09......You got me worried now...had to hurry a charity to complete a D.D.
Can see it in the direct debit list of the bank I am moving from so assume all is OK. Was going to apply tomorrow but will wait.

masonic

grumbler wrote: »

We don't know this for sure. I guess if I instruct the originator to set a DD and then switch the account before it was set up, it will appear on the new account. I'd be surprised if the switching procedure didn't anticipate such situations.

If a direct debit is in the process of being setup for account A, then subsequently account A is switched to account B, and the direct debit appears on account B, then either:
1) the direct debit is transferred as part of the switch
2) a new instruction is set up for account B

Since the OP has stated he has not contacted the company to provide them with the new bank details, and NW would only have the authority to transfer direct debits as part of the current account switching service (and no authority to set up new ones that weren't on the old account), it seems certain to me that NW transferred the direct debit as part of the switch.

masonic

Ken68 wrote: »

Thank you for the alert Jam 09......You got me worried now...had to hurry a charity to complete a D.D.
Can see it in the direct debit list of the bank I am moving from so assume all is OK. Was going to apply tomorrow but will wait.

Take a screenshot. When I've used another bank's switching service, I received an itemised list of all my payments that would be switched, but maybe NW does not do this?

jam_09

I have one quick question to ask everyone though, when is a direct debit a direct debit in everyone's eyes?

YorkshireBoy

jam_09 wrote: »

I have one quick question to ask everyone though, when is a direct debit a direct debit in everyone's eyes?

Direct Debit is a means of payment. Before you can pay by DD there needs to be a DDI (Direct Debit Instruction) in place...these days almost always set up electronically via AUDDIS.

A DDI - in the context of switching - exists when you (either online or in branch on their screen) can see it showing on the account being switched.

grumbler

masonic wrote: »

If a direct debit is in the process of being setup for account A, then subsequently account A is switched to account B, and the direct debit appears on account B, then either:
1) the direct debit is transferred as part of the switch
2) a new instruction is set up for account B

The 'process' can be very long. Pretty often, after getting instructions from a customer well in advance, the originator sets the DD just a few days before taking the first payment.

I can easily imagine

3) the old bank redirects the process to the new bank after the switch.

masonic

grumbler wrote: »

The 'process' can be very long. Pretty often, after getting instructions from a customer well in advance, the originator sets the DD just a few days before taking the firs payments.

I can easily imagine

3) the old bank redirects the process to the new bank after the switch.

Perhaps you are right and a direct debit pull sent to the (now closed) old account is redirected according to clause 1.11 of the NW switching service T&Cs. That's not how I read it originally, but if that's the case, the first payment may have been made using a redirected DD request from the old account, then the originator set up a new instruction on the new account. All of this is instigated by the old bank, meaning the instruction was not transferred as part of the switch.

1.11 For a period of 36 months after the Switch Date if your Old Bank receives payments or requests for payments which relate to your Old Account, subject to compliance with applicable laws, it will redirect these to your New Account. However, if there is an outstanding debt on your Old Account, your Old Bank is entitled to use any funds or payments it receives (including by cheque) in full or part settlement of the debt on your Old Account. The originators of any redirected payments or payment requests will be advised of your New Account details.

jam_09

Hello i can see that but looking at bacs website at how business set up direct debits,
To collect Direct Debit payments you submit your payment data - including amount of each payment, bank account numbers, sort codes and dates – via a bureau or direct access depending on which method you choose.

The data is sorted into payments to each of the banks and then transmitted to each institution. This data is downloaded into their computer systems and debited from the relevant customers' accounts and credited to yours.

The entire process is simple and efficient - and it takes less than three days from start to finish.

Bacs processing cycle
Input - day 1
Input day is the latest day a business user/bureau may submit a payment file to Bacs for a processing cycle. Payment files must be transmitted to Bacs between 07.00 and 22.30.

Processing - day 2
Files are delivered to the recipient banks which then process each payment.

Entry - day 3
Payments are simultaneously debited from the recipients’ accounts and credited to your account.

You remain in control of the process at all times. You can submit your payment instructions up to 30 days in advance of the payment date. You can also recall payments after the payment information has been submitted, provided your bank is notified prior to a specific cut off time.

Does this mean as the first payment was taken in early January and the authorisation was given on the 24th of November that the direct debit should have been voided before being taken or at least the banks made sure that i was happy for the amount to be taken from this new account?