Parking Charge Notice rec'd - any advice should I ignore it?

Ralph-y

the first appeal / letter goes to the PPC ........

they reject and say appeal to the IAS

the reason for the template wording is to tie the PPC up in knots

Ralph:cool:

playaz

Thanks Ralph - i'll write my appeal letter and post this shortly and would appreciate it if you guys can give me some thoughts before I send it.

Thanks again I really appreciate all your efforts

Fruitcake

playaz wrote: »

Hi Ralph - I didn't see your post originally before.

Just to confirm at this stage am I right in saying that I should send the letter off to the IPC with the exact same format as the one found in the newbies thread.

Also - should I be sending an appeal letter to the car parking company? Is their a 'common template' for this also? If so, should I wait for the response from the IPC first before sending an 'appeal letter' directly to the car parking company?

Sorry for the questions, I just want to get this right if possible first time

You have to deal with the parking company first. Send the IPC members' template in the NEWBIES thread to the parking company within 21 days exactly as it is.


When they reject it you have to decide whether to make an IAS appeal that will also be rejected but cost the parking company money or to ignore anything and everything you get for the next six years.

Having sent the initial letter it is unlikely the PPC would want to go to court without answering the questions posed to them, and it is unlikely they would want to answer the questions either and still go to court.
An IAS appeal win for the bad guys on the other hand may cause the PPC to try court, although there is enough evidence that the kangaroo IAS appeals system is so biased that a judge would throw it out.


Only you can make that choice but you need to read up and decide what is best for you and why.

Fruitcake

playaz wrote: »

Thanks Ralph - i'll write my appeal letter and post this shortly and would appreciate it if you guys can give me some thoughts before I send it.

Thanks again I really appreciate all your efforts

You don't write an appeal to an IPC member, you copy and paste the questionnaire template letter from the NEWBIES. Nothing added, nothing taken away, send it exactly as it is as keeper, with name and a squiggle for signature.


We don't need to see it, we already know what it looks like.;)

playaz

Hi guys,

I have my appeal letter below that goes to the car parking company, could you let me know your thoughts on it. My letter that goes to the IPC as kindly stated by others is simply the same as the template from the newbies section so no need to repost this again. Can you all suggest if I should make any amends to the appeal letter below that I send to the car parking company.

To whom it may concern,

Thank you for taking into account my appeal. I am appealing on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur because the bay markings were less than the required 180cm as the markings were not visible, and were therefore not in compliance with Schedule 6 of Traffic Signs Regulations 1994.

Though the PCN is the result of allegedly not parking within the designated bay, I argue that the 'signs' (bay markings) failed to adequately comply with the regulations. Specifically, as the bay markings are not properly marked and have badly faded therefore clearly not maintained. I cannot be in contravention if there were no markings or they were not properly visible. Clearly the car park management was non-existent.
[FONT=&quot]As the signage failed to inform me of the regulations, no offence has been committed under the Road Traffic Act of 1991.

Furthermore, in an almost identical case, London Tribunals (formerly PATAS, Parking and Traffic Appeals Service) allowed an appeal, stating the clear precedent that incorrect bay markings justify the cancellation of a PCN.

MR J LETTS - vLONDON BOROUGH OF LAMBETH
Parking Appeal 1980151656
Penalty Charge Notice lh20988622

"On the evidence before me I find that the width of this bay is less than the minimum of 180cm. Accordingly, I find that the bay is not properly marked and therefore that this contravention did not occur. For the reasons I have set out I allow this appeal."

I believe that therefore you should exercise fairness in cancelling a ticket that, according to the guidance, is perfectly justified to be cancelled. I will of course endeavour to avoid this again, but I feel that the issue of a ticket is an unlawful action inconsistent with PATAS precedent.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thank you, [/FONT]

Mr J BLOGGS (obviously i'd put the registered keeper name & address here)
123 Some Rd
London
E1 123
Registration : AB09 PQB (again i'd include my real reg plate for the keeper in the letter)

Quentin

What is this letter for?


Why not follow the advice given to you here and use the template in the newbies faq thread?

Fruitcake

playaz wrote: »

Hi guys,

I have my appeal letter below that goes to the car parking company, could you let me know your thoughts on it.

Mr J BLOGGS (obviously i'd put the registered keeper name & address here)
123 Some Rd
London
E1 123
Registration : AB09 PQB (again i'd include my real reg plate for the keeper in the letter)

Don't send that! You have revealed who was driving, thrice! I haven't quoted all of your giveaway appeal so you can delete ALL of it and start again.


Why have you ignored the advice to use the template in the NEWBIES thread?


You don't send anything to the IPC at all, you send an IAS appeal after the PPC has rejected your appeal to them, if you want to.


You really need to go back and read the NEWIES sections about IPC members again.

playaz

Ok - i'll see what you mean now, they make it intentionally confusing as people are more likely to pay up i guess

I will send the following to the car parking company (the IPC template) with my registered keeper details as stated in the newbies section & postal address. Would this be the correct format, and then simply wait for their response whenever that may be.

Oh and thanks again :-)

Dear *********

Re PCN number: 123456 [will change to real one from the ticket]

I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge (not a statutory penalty) issued under a purported contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company for the provision of their services? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in your own name.
4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
8. Please provide a copy of the signs that purportedly were on site which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion.

If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.

In my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to those, so to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your alleged loss. In any case, the addition of any debt collector 'costs' is not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

Yours faithfully,

Registered Keeper Details :
Joe Bloggs etc..

Fruitcake

By jove, I think the OP has got it! :T

Coupon-mad

Fruitcake wrote: »

You don't write an appeal to an IPC member, you copy and paste the questionnaire template letter from the NEWBIES. Nothing added, nothing taken away, send it exactly as it is as keeper, with name and a squiggle for signature.

We don't need to see it, we already know what it looks like.

As above. This was like pulling teeth, we still got shown the appeal for no reason at all - and the charge won't be cancelled anyway.