Formal Appeal: chances?

londonlydia

Hi


I was just wondering what the odds are for winning formal appeals? As in % success?


My situation:


I parked in a pay and display car park (council run), and I arrived at the same time as the parking officer arrived in his car. I found a space, went to the parking meter near my car, only to find a notice saying to use the other parking meter available. As the parking officer saw me at the meter reading the sign, I thought he clearly saw I was in the process of trying to pay. Anyway, this is a fairly large carpark, and there is only one other meter, which is a good 100m away from the broken one. So off I walked to it, only to find a queue. So I thought I would try the mobile parking number. I registered, and it started my parking AFTER I had registered my card (process took a few minutes in itself I might add, as I've done it since for my mum's phone and timed it at taking 4 minutes before it starts your parking). So having paid, I went off for the day. However, on returning to my vehicle, I saw the dreaded PCN! The officer had issued it whilst I was still in the car park paying!


So I put in an informal appeal, on the basis that I was paying when it was issued, but they rejected it saying that you have to immediately pay for parking. However, I made my best effort at doing so, but as their nearest meter was broken, and the other meter is quite some walk, and then I had to register and then pay for mobile parking, it took some time. Despite that time needed, I paid for parking 6 minutes following the PCN. The council's own guidance on parking states that you have a 10 minute grace period in which to pay, which I was within. So hence I thought that they would just cancel it, but they've rejected it so now I have to formally appeal.


So if anyone has an opinion on what my specific chances would be at appeal I would be grateful. Also, is there anything I can do to help my case? I thought about returning to the carpark to show how far the other meter is away from the space.




(I should add, the car park is L-shaped, and from my space and the broken meter, you cant see the other meter. The parking officer took pictures of the parking sign above the broken meter and my car, but didn't take any pictures of the meter itself (probably because it would include the sign on it saying it was broken) or any pictures of the other, working, meter (probably because I was stood in front of it!).

Redx

as this is a council issue you really need to ask over on pepipoo forums in their council parking queries section

londonlydia

Hi,

As an update, I didn't have any luck getting into Pepipoo, it seems that I never get the email to verify my account! So hope you all don't mind me coming back here!

As an update. I am now going to the London Tribunals on this. I got a Notice of Rejection this week, and quite frankly Bexley's answer was odd at best.

In particular, in my last appeal (formal) I pointed out that their own policy states that driver's have 10 minutes in which to pay. In their rejection letter, they said that 'the grace period does not apply, because parking officers can give a PCN at any time". So is it me, or are they saying their own policy is wrong?!

Then it said, 'drivers cannot park for just a few minutes'. Again this is weird, as it's not really relevant to my case, as I parked all day. It's just I got a PCN whilst I was still in the car park going to pay for my parking!

I think this whole thing is ridiculous, I've pointed out that there were no means to pay any faster than I did (the cash parking meter was broken near my car, and the only other one was a long trek away).

So...does anyone have experience of London tribunals? Or know the success chances?

ManxRed

Do a Google search for PATAS or PTAS cases where adjudications were made on similar grounds (use some good key words) to bolster your case. If you can find any that were awarded in favour of the motorist you can use that to demonstrate that a precedent has been set.

Coupon-mad

In particular, in my last appeal (formal) I pointed out that their own policy states that driver's have 10 minutes in which to pay. In their rejection letter, they said that 'the grace period does not apply, because parking officers can give a PCN at any time". So is it me, or are they saying their own policy is wrong?!

Then it said, 'drivers cannot park for just a few minutes'. Again this is weird, as it's not really relevant to my case, as I parked all day. It's just I got a PCN whilst I was still in the car park going to pay for my parking!

I think this whole thing is ridiculous, I've pointed out that there were no means to pay any faster than I did (the cash parking meter was broken near my car, and the only other one was a long trek away).

You make valid points which the Adjudicator will take into account.

So...does anyone have experience of London tribunals? Or know the success chances?

Most people win at adjudication even without pepipoo the odds are in your favour. Almost everyone on pepipoo does win when they go to adjudication which is always best to attend in person, to show yourself as an honest witness with valid points.

Quite often the Councils fold or send no-one to the hearing, which by all accounts is just like any meeting (not a 'tribunal'). An example of a hearing by the PATAS Lead Adjudicator was shown recently in 'Parking Mad' (or was it Parking Wars, another Tv prog). Just a meeting across a table, take your evidence, pictures of any sign, copy of their policy printed out, copy of the rejection letter & PCN.

londonlydia

Hey everyone,


Just to say I went to the London traffic adjudicators and I was successful! Thanks for you inputs everyone!

Coupon-mad

Nice one! As expected because people don't realise most Council PCNs are beatable.

Did you actually attend adjudication and what was your experience, did the Council contest it and what was the deciding factor. How was it?