Master Bedroom in loft has no building regulations

NewLibra

Hi,


We are in the middle of buying a house that was advertised as 5 bedroom.
The master bedroom is a loft extension with dormer window. The dormer window has building regulations from 2002 so we guess the loft extension was done previous to this. The current owners have had the house for 3 years.
The problem is there are no building regulations in place for this master bedroom.
I've quite an anxious person so this worries me and I'm hoping someone can either reassure me or let me know I'm right to worry!




What doesn’t worry me about no building regulations

• Council asking us to take it down or apply BR retrospectively. I don't think this would happen and we could always ask for indemnity insurance but that only covers against the cost of the council taking enforcement action if they decide to take an interest in the stuff that needs building regs but doesn't have it. It won't cover against the cost of remedial work if the dodgy loft causes structural problems.

Here are the things that worry me about no building regulations

1. It invalidates our building insurance, so any problems due to this room won’t be covered by insurance. This is actually quite important.
2. That we are paying for a 5 bedroom house but in fact it’s a 4 bedroom house.
3. Regulations tighten so we have to market it as 4 bedroom when we sell (even if it’s not for another 15years)
4. There is a reason there are building regulations around fire doors etc.
5. Apparently mortgage companies can be funny about this, so even if we get a mortgage this time round we might not in 5years, also now we have pointed this out our lawyer will probably have to inform the mortgage company as they have done the mortgage on a 5 bedroom house.

A lot of the sellers answers seem to be “we bought it like that” but it’s not our problem their lawyer at the time didn’t pick things up. I want this house, I don’t want an albatross.


Sorry for the length of this.

andy.pandy

I would have thought the estate agent would have explained what you can do. I think we were in a similar situation years ago, but we were simply told to buy an indemnity insurance to cover it. It cost peanuts to do. Not sure if u can do the same thing.

Doozergirl

How bothered do you think building control were in 2002 when they walked into the loft conversion and approved the dormer window?

They must have been satisfied that the conversion itself wasn't dangerous.

Do you have any idea when the conversion took place? It could pre-date the regs or it could have been done with the dormer and for some reason it isn't logged. In effect, the dormer window regularises the loft conversion.

Rodders53

Indemnity just covers you for Building Regs attempting to enforce compliance... which this long down the line (4 years max) they can't do.

You can get retrospective certification at a cost and likely some exploratory destruction of finishes to inspect lintels, joists, fire stops and insulation. But approaching the Council BR will mean you cannot apply for indemnity insurance (catch 22).

You can also get an independent inspector to check for safe construction, existence of fire-doors and suchlike... but again may require opening up the structure to find steels etc.,. Thismay or may not be sufficient for retrospective BR certification.

SOME mortgagors insist on certification or indemnity - why? I don't know (I suspect it's a nice earner for some solicitors via commission from the insurers?).

If in doubt... and you don't want to go the inspection route / retrospective certification for peace of mind... the only option is to walk away from this house purchase.

NewLibra

The loft conversion was done over 10 yrs ago and I'm not worried about the council.suddenly waking up and chasing for BR, no indemnity insurance is needed.

There is no way it would conform to BR now, which our surveyor stated.

I am worried about paying for a house which has been valued as a 5 bedroom when in fact legally it's a 4.
I'm also worried about invalid building insurance and mortgage companies being difficult.

alchemist.1

Well you have answered your own question.

it should only be advertised as a four bedroom property and you will be stuck with that unless you go back to the council.

The mortgage valuation will be based on the same basis.

NewLibra

The mortgage valuation has been done based on a 5 bedroom house. The Estate agent valued and marketed based on 5 bedrooms.

leveller2911

Doozergirl wrote: »

How bothered do you think building control were in 2002 when they walked into the loft conversion and approved the dormer window?

They must have been satisfied that the conversion itself wasn't dangerous.

Do you have any idea when the conversion took place? It could pre-date the regs or it could have been done with the dormer and for some reason it isn't logged. In effect, the dormer window regularises the loft conversion.

I've constructed quite a few dormer Windows over the years and a few were done purely for cosmetic reasons even though the lofts were never converted or the intention was to convert the lofts at a later date.

It's possible the conversion was done post dormer Windows so Building Control never knew about the conversion. I can't see BC inspecting the Dormer construction and not taking action with a conversion with no Building regs.

NewLibra

The dormer window is 2002 and the loft conversion was done before this.

Gordon_Hose

To class it as 5 bed the loft conversion would need regularisation. If they come across issues you'll need to rectify them before they will sign it off.

The council won't ask you to take anything down, you can do what you like with the inside of your own house. But when you come to sell you won't be able to advertise it as 5 bed. I wouldn't buy the place without either ragularisation (which the seller might not be too bothered about doing), or re-valuing as a 4 bed house.

Our house has a "habitable room" in the loft, it even has a velux. It can't be classed as a room as it doesn't have regs. I just use the space for light storage and my office.

alchemist.1

NewLibra wrote: »

The mortgage valuation has been done based on a 5 bedroom house. The Estate agent valued and marketed based on 5 bedrooms.

It doesn't stop the next mortgage provider/Estate agent considering it a four bed house without council intervention (when you come to sell). Most do.

Upto you whether you want to take that risk.