Arguing with online retailer - am I in the right?

burlington6

You sound like you're the one in the wrong OP and the one with the attitude.

Sorry

unholyangel

deaston wrote: »

But the seller's T&Cs say they will cover the return costs, so surely that takes precedence over statutory rights? It seems to me that his decision to deduct the £56 is just a case of sour grapes.

You miss the point of my post I think.

Did they provide you the above information (that you would be responsible for the return costs and what those costs would be) prior to you being bound by the contract?

If not, then they cannot make a deduction as per the 2nd part of CCRs I quoted and they themselves are liable for return costs.

bod1467

I think you may have to spell out what "being bound by the contract" means.

Do CCRs still mention such info must be sent by durable means?

unholyangel

burlington6 wrote: »

You sound like you're the one in the wrong OP and the one with the attitude.

Sorry

I would say so if OP had provided the address incorrectly, but they didn't.

To plays devils advocate, hundreds of thousands of pieces of mail are delivered each and every day without a phone number. Nor is there any proof that a phone number would have ensured delivery on time - most delivery drivers have GPS or street maps (or access to smart phones which have map abilities on them).

I don't think its fair to place the blame on OP here simply for missing off a digit.

unholyangel

bod1467 wrote: »

I think you may have to spell out what "being bound by the contract" means.

Do CCRs still mention such info must be sent by durable means?

Yes. It has 2 sections now - one is pre-contractual information to be provided, the other is for confirmation of contract by durable means (which must be delivered not later than the goods).

naedanger

deaston wrote: »

Didn't see that. That opens quite the can of worms. I'd argue the delivery wasn't aborted. It was attempted outside of the agreed times at which point I chose to cancel. Had the delivery arrived on time, none of this would've happened.

I agree with your view.

As you say their terms of sale states:

"If you simply wish to return the products, you may do so within 14 days of you receiving the products (as per your statutory rights), and you will be granted a full refund (including delivery cost) provided the goods are returned in a saleable condition. We will pay for the cost of collecting returned products, however you must ensure adequate access for our haulier to collect the goods. Where appropriate access is not given, we will pass any additional haulage costs on to you." [My underlining.]

Your statutory rights will not reduce your contractual rights, so you can safely rely on this term.

As pointed out there is another condition that states an aborted delivery will be chargeable. However that is in the context of where a delivery fails because you have failed either to provide the required access for their vehicle or failed to accept delivery at the due time. However in your case the reason for the delivery failure was that the supplier (or their agent) failed to deliver the load at the correct time. (You had a contractual right to have returned the goods without charge. The fact they failed to meet their side of the bargain cannot be a valid reason for denying you your contractual right to return the goods at their expense.)

I also don't think the fact you made a mistake in telephone number is relevant unless they can show that this failure was actually the reason they failed to deliver at the required time.

deaston

unholyangel wrote: »

Yes. It has 2 sections now - one is pre-contractual information to be provided, the other is for confirmation of contract by durable means (which must be delivered not later than the goods).

The only info I got about delivery was what was in their T&Cs. Once I placed the order I got a receipt by email that said:

"Delivery date: Tuesday, 19th January 2016
Delivery time slot: All day delivery (8:30am - 5:30pm)"

It also shows the 'special delivery instructions' I gave them:

"Our gate is directly off [road name] - look for the [house number] painted on a plaque on the grass verge."

Ok, I did get a digit wrong on the phone number (I put 01******** instead of 07*******), but I can't stress how easy our property is to find - with or without sat nav. I'd argue the driver was simply late and the seller is frustrated that I've asked for a refund. And to say that he legally has 28 days to "gather evidence" seems very unnecessary.

deaston

naedanger wrote: »

I also don't think the fact you made a mistake in telephone number is relevant unless they can show that this failure was actually the reason they failed to deliver at the required time.

I suppose they could argue that the driver arrived in the area at 5.20pm and couldn't contact me to get more directions, but I can't believe he carried on trying to find my house for a further hour and twenty minutes until he finally got here and left a "sorry we missed you" card with the time stamp of 6:40pm.

My house is a numbered property on a main road - it's not an obscure name in an odd place. It would have taken him minutes to find once he was in the right area.

naedanger

deaston wrote: »

I suppose they could argue that the driver arrived in the area at 5.20pm and couldn't contact me to get more directions, but I can't believe he carried on trying to find my house for a further hour and twenty minutes until he finally got here and left a "sorry we missed you" card with the time stamp of 6:40pm.

My house is a numbered property on a main road - it's not an obscure name in an odd place. It would have taken him minutes to find once he was in the right area.

I don't think they will argue that the faulty telephone number was the cause of the delay. If they do then ask for details of what happened e.g. what was it they could not find - the town, the street, the house, and when did they first realise they had a problem and what did they do between then and actually finding your house. It seems like you would be able to tear their argument to shreds. (If you need to take them to court print maps and pictures from street view to show the location etc, and point out any inconsistencies in their argument.)

visidigi

deaston wrote: »

I suppose they could argue that the driver arrived in the area at 5.20pm and couldn't contact me to get more directions, but I can't believe he carried on trying to find my house for a further hour and twenty minutes until he finally got here and left a "sorry we missed you" card with the time stamp of 6:40pm.

My house is a numbered property on a main road - it's not an obscure name in an odd place. It would have taken him minutes to find once he was in the right area.

Couriers don't keep going till they find you - they move on and come back to you. One missed delivery commitment is alot less hassle for them than all the others he had to do after you missing commitment too.

Again, say for example there has been an accident on the way to your delivery that held him up for two hours - thats outside of his control...I suspect its this sort of information which form the defense of the retailer collating up their 'evidence'.