Journeys up the property ladder: ‘I know that I am just so lucky’

mayonnaise

If Carl's maths are in any way representative for today's youth, it's no wonder they're struggling.

princeofpounds

So: Marry well.
That's the message.
Marry somebody who earns a LOT more than you do, then fool yourself that you did something clever

Remind me of an article I read once in a women's magazine, lauding this Iranian lady who grew up as a poor orphan exile, before starting a multi-million dollar property business and becoming a philanthropist role model for women everywhere.


Only two-thirds of the way through does it hint at the real reason for her success; she married a billionaire businessman with interests in arms dealing (amongst other things). Who basically just gave her the money to buy a few buildings.


Having said that, another thing I have been surprised about in my career (where I get to meet some of these types) is that a very surprising number of successful men have actually achieved their position via a good marriage. Typically it's the father-in-law rather than the wife herself who provide the advantage. But it's much harder for people to spot and it doesn't get talked about very much

PasturesNew

princeofpounds wrote: »

... a very surprising number of successful men have actually achieved their position via a good marriage. ...

Currently the telly are re-running the Selfridges drama. The life of Mr Selfridge, who started Selfridges and ended up losing the lot/dying a pauper.

I always like to see "how did people get their money" as 99.99% are in denial. A short overview for Mr Selfridge is:

Born, father abandoned mother. She worked hard/struggled.
Young lad Selfridge had to earn money from an early age, got a job in a little local shop. Got given an introduction letter to try to get a full-time job in a bigger shop. Stayed there years, working in somebody's shop.

MARRIED WELL. Married a very, very, WELL connected/rich lady.

Opened Selfridges. 1906, spent £400k doing that.

Wife died in the influenza epidemic.

He burnt through the whole of his fortune with floozies and gambling.

Carl31

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Fixed that for you...;)




Fixed that for you as well.




You're not even close....

Average FTB house 153K
Average FTB loan 128K
Average FTB deposit 25K

But...

Average FTB income 39K.

ah yes that would help maybe they should teach maths better at school? or i should go back


Are these single or dual income numbers? average FTB salary?

worried_jim

Didn't he also live with two sisters and, ahem, made good use of them of an evening?

danothy

Carl31 wrote: »

Ok, can you give an example? just trying to compare like for like

Sure, and it's not too different from your example when the maths is corrected. Like for like would be someone on a "good" wage now, and someone on minimum wage now, with the lower earner already having about a year's gross wages saved up. Let's pretend that a "good" wage in this context is seen through the eyes of the minimum wage worker, so maybe an approximate median earning of about £27k? The deposit they're looking for is about £25k (twice the lower earner's annual wage, not a fifth of it).

Those numbers about match the FTB income (assuming combined) and deposit amount Hamish gave. Remember though, the higher earner is literally restricted from spending their income, and together they already have about half of the deposit from somewhere, never mind where. For me, this is what makes their task much easier. Effectively they are describing how easy it is to save up a deposit by referencing the difficulty of saving up half a deposit while simultaneously not having to or be able to spend much on normal living costs due to being at sea.

mwpt

princeofpounds wrote: »

Remind me of an article I read once in a women's magazine, lauding this Iranian lady who grew up as a poor orphan exile, before starting a multi-million dollar property business and becoming a philanthropist role model for women everywhere.


Only two-thirds of the way through does it hint at the real reason for her success; she married a billionaire businessman with interests in arms dealing (amongst other things). Who basically just gave her the money to buy a few buildings.


Having said that, another thing I have been surprised about in my career (where I get to meet some of these types) is that a very surprising number of successful men have actually achieved their position via a good marriage. Typically it's the father-in-law rather than the wife herself who provide the advantage. But it's much harder for people to spot and it doesn't get talked about very much

Side note: Rumour that the author of _Rich Dad, Poor Dad_ has filed for bankruptcy.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Carl31 wrote: »

Are these single or dual income numbers? average FTB salary?

It's of applicants so could most appropriately be described as household income. Some are single income and some are dual income, or one full time, one part time, etc.

I haven't seen a split recently but the last time I did it was about 60/40 in favour of single income.

The main point around average FTB income (or even house buyer income in general) is that the average income of house buyers tends to be higher than the average income of all people.

The lowest paid 30% or so of society have never been able to buy (home ownership never got much above circa 70%).... That's social housing or PRS with housing benefits territory.

And likewise on the house prices the average FTB house is cheaper than the average house.

So when looking at how realistic it is for FTB-s to buy or not the average house price compared to average income really isn't of much relevance.

People on average wages don't buy average houses (and never have), people on the average wage of the top earning 65% to 70% of society buy average houses....

On a related note, the average numbers for 'home movers' (usually people selling their FTB place and buying something bigger) are income of £55K buying houses for £230K with mortgages of £165K.

All of these are well within sensible lending criteria and the amount being spent on mortgages is well below the long term average.

LydiaJ

Most of them had help from the BOMAD. Not only was this already common practice in the 50s, but it had been going on a lot longer. When my grandparents helped my parents buy their house in 1959, they explained that they were merely paying forward the help that they had received from my great-grandparents when they bought their house some time around 1920.

Family money, whether lent, gifted or inherited, was a much bigger part of everyday finance for the property-owning classes for hundreds of years than it has been for the last few decades. The idea that young adults should be able to afford to buy houses without help or inheritance from their parents has only been around since the latter part of the twentieth century, and is therefore a comparatively recent innovation.

PasturesNew

Re BOMAD in my family - there's never been one.
My mum was the first in her family owning a house (although I think her G-grandfather had a few, left to his many children in his will, so probably half a house each).
My dad's parents had owned a house, the mortgage was provided by his uncle, who then withdrew that and repossessed their house when my grandfather went into hospital.

Neither mum, nor dad, got a penny in help towards their first house, which dad bought on his wages/savings when he was 40. They bought that one, sold it when they retired and bought their 2nd house.

My siblings and I never received a penny.

Sibling 1: married, both good jobs, bought in a cheap part of the country. Still living in their 2nd house (been there over 30 years). Mortgage paid off years ago.
Sibling 2: single, good job. Made some very poor house choices so didn't "do well" until I went house-hunting with them and said "this is the one" and they were back on track. Mortgage just paid off.
Me: single, pretty hopeless, hapless and unlucky. Finally "hit a lucky streak" when I was briefly mortgageable, aged 40, so went for it. Job ended so I sat in a wreck while it appreciated in value for 7 years. Sold it, bought this (small) one, no mortgage.