Are Renters 2nd Class Citizens?

TheeMaskedTurnip

There's a thread over on HPC called 'Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes' where a number of responders have identified renting and renters as clearly 2nd class citizens. Is this assumption correct? Personally I think Brits are not obsessed with own their own property, more that they prefer to be settled and in control of their own lives. It also makes sound financial sense to pay down your own mortgage rather than someone else's.

thequant

TheeMaskedTurnip wrote: »

There's a thread over on HPC called 'Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes' where a number of responders have identified renting and renters as clearly 2nd class citizens. Is this assumption correct? Personally I think Brits are not obsessed with own their own property, more that they prefer to be settled and in control of their own lives. It also makes sound financial sense to pay down your own mortgage rather than someone else's.

Since buying my own place I have noticed there is a difference between those who own and those who rent in lots of ways.

Those who own, tend to be more successful and focused in life.

There are other smaller things, such as I've noticed my rentier friends never use a coaster when I make them a drink, where as my owner occupier friends do.

It's got to the point I'm reluctant to invite them round anymore due to the constant worry of them leaving marks on my furniture.

HappyMJ

TheeMaskedTurnip wrote: »

There's a thread over on HPC called 'Why are Brits so obsessed with buying their own homes' where a number of responders have identified renting and renters as clearly 2nd class citizens. Is this assumption correct? Personally I think Brits are not obsessed with own their own property, more that they prefer to be settled and in control of their own lives. It also makes sound financial sense to pay down your own mortgage rather than someone else's.

Not at all.

I prefer to rent the flat I'm living in and put the money in the bank earning interest. It's not worth buying. It's cheaper to rent it.

I might be paying down someone else's mortgage but I earn more money than they do just by putting my money in the bank than I would, had I spent it buying this flat.

It's £110,000 (plus purchase costs) to buy it plus service charges (including building insurance) and ground rent. It's a depreciating leasehold property which needs thousands spent in less than 10 years to renew the lease but I would sell before then anyway which also incurs costs and there's no guarantee I would get back what I paid in as opposed to the bank account where my capital is 100% guaranteed. There's also maintenance costs to pay out.

I pay £475/month rent and that includes fridge, freezer, washing machine and cooker which I do not own.

TheeMaskedTurnip

thequant wrote: »

Since buying my own place I have noticed there is a difference between those who own and those who rent in lots of ways.

Those who own, tend to be more successful and focused in life.

There are other smaller things, such as I've noticed my rentier friends never use a coaster when I make them a drink, where as my owner occupier friends do.

It's got to the point I'm reluctant to invite them round anymore due to the constant worry of them leaving marks on my furniture.

Salient point and something I've noticed myself. Another issue is rentiers slamming doors/drawers/cupboards.

DpchMd

HappyMJ wrote: »

Not at all.

I prefer to rent the flat I'm living in and put the money in the bank earning interest. It's not worth buying. It's cheaper to rent it.

I might be paying down someone else's mortgage but I earn more money than they do just by putting my money in the bank than I would, had I spent it buying this flat.

It's £110,000 (plus purchase costs) to buy it plus service charges (including building insurance) and ground rent. It's a depreciating leasehold property which needs thousands spent in less than 10 years to renew the lease but I would sell before then anyway which also incurs costs and there's no guarantee I would get back what I paid in as opposed to the bank account where my capital is 100% guaranteed. There's also maintenance costs to pay out.

I pay £475/month rent and that includes fridge, freezer, washing machine and cooker which I do not own.

Let's just ignore the fact that you could move out of your hovel and buy a property that is not a depreciating leasehold.

But sure, you choose to rent the one property in the UK that seems to be immune from the relentless HPI the UK has experienced over the past 12 months. How convenient.

westernpromise

HappyMJ wrote: »

It's a depreciating leasehold property which needs thousands spent in less than 10 years to renew the lease

Are you sure?

It's a while since I did it but a few years ago we and the neighnours upstairs bought the freehold of the house we were living in. It was £1500 split between us, plus legal costs. We got it all back within 2 years because the freeholder had been ripping us off on insurance - as soon as we were our own freeholder we reduced the premium from £2000 to £600.

The cost of a lease extension is basically just the marriage value of the lease. Once it gets below 80 years left it shoots up, but prior to then you have the right to buy it, the formula is well understood and there's a tribunal that rules on disagreement.

We never actually did extend our leases because it was a formality but one that involved a cost. As both lessor and lessee the lease length loses all significance.

Some of the reasons I've read just today for not buying - roofs lasting 30 years and leasehold flats depreciating - are so astoundingly misinformed that I really do wonder where people are getting their information from.

SailorSam

I've never rented. But i can see it has advantages. It's a lot easier for someone living in a rented furnished flat to decide they want to 'up sticks' and move to the other side of the Country if a better job came up. Or if you wanted a year out to go travelling.

MARTYM8`

DpchMd wrote: »

Let's just ignore the fact that you could move out of your hovel and buy a property that is not a depreciating leasehold.

But sure, you choose to rent the one property in the UK that seems to be immune from the relentless HPI the UK has experienced over the past 12 months. How convenient.

Maybe the property is in Barnsley where according to the Land Registry house prices fell nearly 4% in the 12 months to December.

Average prices mean little - some places rise and fall.

Mistermeaner

Young and kids I would rent for flexibility (and did)

Once kids come along they need stability and the best way of providing stability is a home.

The most economically prudent thing to do when occupying a home is to buy it. Kids at least 20 odd years so you'll ride out peaks and troughs of pricing.

Also I've not seen many examples where rent is actually cheaper than mortgage as they basically track each other anyway.

I think of the 'rent' in my own property as the interest cost of my mortgage + essential maintenance. My house is 100+ years old. Original roof still in situ and generally ok. I reckon I spend maybe 400 quid a year on maintenance as an average (including new appliances). Because I've been paying down my mortgage my rent at 5% would be less than 200quid a month.

The property next door was just let at 600 a month.

Even with no hpi in 10 years (northern hell hole) I'm still better off buying.

Ps house is worth maybe 135k and at current mortgage payments will be 100% mine in 2 years...... long before my 40th birthday.

Mistermeaner

And renters are certainly not 2nd class citizens by the way.

Work shy benefit claimants are (who also happen to be renters) but renters as a group are not.

GwylimT

I'm forty and I own two mortgage free properties. I couldn't personally afford to rent a flat the same as my own in this building.

For us renting would be far more expensive, it would also be very difficult as we require a wetroom, wide doorways, no step into the home and a winch system.