Second hand car purchase problem

tinmice

Hi all, I could really do with some advice/help.

I bought a used car from a trader yesterday. On driving it home I have heard several noises from the gearbox that were not apparent on the test drive, which is making me very nervous. I have booked it in to a garage for a diagnostic tomorrow.

I have already done a lot of reading around the Consumer Rights act and have spoken to the Citizens Advice Bureau about how to resolve the issue (asses, discuss, complaints procedure, letter etc), however there is another problem.

Upon reviewing the paperwork when I got home I realised that he has written the following on the invoice, by hand,

"Sold as seen. No Warranty. Short MOT. Should be trailer away. Sold as scrap for spares."

Please don't ask why I signed this, I feel sick enough about it already. I read this when I was looking at the invoice, and must have skimmed the latter part as I was aware of the sold 'as as seen' and 'no warranty' part when I thought about it, I must have blanked the rest in my haste of signing all sorts of things. Lesson learned.

However, the advert listed on AutoTrader does not mention anything about it being in this condition, in fact it says "drives well, good condition", he did not mention anything about this during discussion prior to the sale, and we even went out for a test drive - hardly behaviour indicating I was buying something for parts.

It was only on reviewing the paperwork in the evening that I saw this and am now very alarmed.

Would this preclude me from cover in the Consumer Rights Act or Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act? I can sort of see why it would, but in my opinion he has certainly acted dishonestly and misrepresented the condition of the car both in writing (on the advert, which I have a copy of) and in discussion before buying the vehicle and only added this text at the very last second while I was signing all of the required paperwork.

Any thoughts or similar experiences would be very welcome.

Thanks,
Ben

PaulSmenis

The dealer cant get you to sign your statutory rights away no matter what he puts on the invoice

How much was the car? Year? Length of MOT? What sort of car is it (curiosity)

rhino_horn

Is he an old school dealer?

I bet he hasn't realised that 1 - the Consumer Rights Act has changed and 2 - he can't sell a car with those terms.

This is a very link which explains things very well and where you stand (although written from the POV of the dealer). Argh as I am a new poster I am unable to post links. Search on Lawgistics and then click on Consumer Rights Act.

I am a car dealer HTH

mb101_2

PaulSmenis wrote: »

The dealer cant get you to sign your statutory rights away no matter what he puts on the invoice

How much was the car? Year? Length of MOT? What sort of car is it (curiosity)

Err, while it's true that you can't sign away your statutory rights and "no warranty" and "sold as seen" are meaningless, you seem to be ignoring the other statements on the document that the OP has (moronically) signed:

"Should be trailer away. Sold as scrap for spares."

It is permissible for a trader to sell an (effectively) unroadworthy car if its accurately described.

OP - I would suggest you immediately save/screenshot the autotrader ad and any other evidence that the dealer presented the car as roadworthy.

I would have thought that you may struggle to prove that the dealer did not describe the car accurately if you have signed that piece of paper.

Contact them and see what they say, but if they don't want to help (and, let's be honest, they sound dodgy), it could be a long and tortuous process to try and enforce your rights.

Rain_Shadow

PaulSmenis wrote: »

The dealer cant get you to sign your statutory rights away no matter what he puts on the invoice

How much was the car? Year? Length of MOT? What sort of car is it (curiosity)

This information would be very helpful in giving suitable advice.


Also, was it really bought on finance as suggested in the OP?

PaulSmenis

mb101 wrote: »

Err, while it's true that you can't sign away your statutory rights and "no warranty" and "sold as seen" are meaningless, you seem to be ignoring the other statements on the document that the OP has (moronically) signed:

"Should be trailer away. Sold as scrap for spares."

It is permissible for a trader to sell an (effectively) unroadworthy car if its accurately described.

Err, as the buyer DIDNT trailer it away, the seller CANT say he sold it for scrap or spares.

Dealers have to be extremely careful with the "sold as spares or repairs" - that only holds water IF the car is ACTUALLY towed away or trailered away.

Otherwise it will be seen as a thinly veiled attempt to have the buyer sign away their rights.

motorguy

PaulSmenis wrote: »

Err, as the buyer DIDNT trailer it away, the seller CANT say he sold it for scrap or spares.

Dealers have to be extremely careful with the "sold as spares or repairs" - that only holds water IF the car is ACTUALLY towed away or trailered away.

Otherwise it will be seen as a thinly veiled attempt to have the buyer sign away their rights.

And particularly in light of the wording of the advert and taking the O/P on a test drive.

tinmice

Thanks for all of the replies, really helpful.

How much was the car? Year? Length of MOT?

Car is about 15 years, very short MOT. Didn't spend loads, but would like it back if it is knackered.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a read through.

I would suggest you immediately save/screenshot the autotrader ad and any other evidence that the dealer presented the car as roadworthy.

Yes, I'm a moron - I've saved the original advert on both AutoTrader and his website, both of which are basically the same and state that it 'drives well' and does not mention that it is not working and should be spares. I've also made detailed notes of our whole interaction - throughout which there was no mention of this.

Also, was it really bought on finance as suggested in the OP?

Paid for on credit card, so covered by the Consumer Credit Act as well, in theory.

Err, as the buyer DIDNT trailer it away, the seller CANT say he sold it for scrap or spares.

Is there a legal basis for this? It sounds like this might be the thing that saves me.

At the moment I'm going to get it checked at a garage, I'm guessing they are going to find something terminal, if not then great and all my worrying is unsubstantiated.

I'll talk to him after that (presuming that something is wrong, seems probable), but I'm guessing he will push back pretty hard citing the hand written note. If there is a legal basis for not letting me drive it away if it was for spares or scrap then it would be great to be able back that up.

Otherwise I will see what he says, and pursue 'rejecting' the car if there is a basis for it.

scaredofdebt

The price paid is important as the Sale of Goods Act says something along the lines of the goods must be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality depending on the price paid. ie if you paid £150 for the car and it is scrap, then you have only really paid scrap value, but if you paid a grand for it, then you should expect some kind of use out of the car.

But the devil is in the detail as to what that means exactly, ie its down to the lawyers to argue over and the judge to decide if it ever went to court.

The advert will be very useful to help back up your story so keep that safe!

tinmice

Yeah it was about £1000 mark, so slightly cheap for a car of that model and age, but not that cheap. It had a couple of marks on which is what he used to explain the cheap price. It was definitely a market value figure than scrap or spares figure.

I'm expecting this might be somewhat difficult, it would be a lot easier if there is something somewhere that says he can't sell it as spares if I drive it away.

Has anyone been through the process of 'rejecting' a car under the Consumer Rights Act before? Do you have to return it or are they obliged to collect?

motorguy

tinmice wrote: »

Is there a legal basis for this? It sounds like this might be the thing that saves me.

At the moment I'm going to get it checked at a garage, I'm guessing they are going to find something terminal, if not then great and all my worrying is unsubstantiated.

Yes, theres a legal basis for it. The dealer would find it very hard to make a "sold as spare or repairs" stick if he took you on a test drive, advertised it as roadworthy and you DIDNT trailer it away.

You've avoided telling us much about the car?

Why?

If there are "only" noises from the gearbox, i find sticking a Slick 50 gearbox treatment and a change of gear oil will quieten things down and give you a sporting chance of it continuing to run

Also, one thing to bear in mind is, just because the law may be on your side, doesnt mean the dealer has to roll over and play ball and refund you.

Chances are he'll dig his heels in. Then you're left with the inconvenient, long winded and potentially expensive option of taking it to court to find out whos right....