Classroom Advice please

TBagpuss

blues wrote: »

I work in education and it is a personal irritation that the most needy children in a class are often sent out of the room to work with the least qualified adult (the TA). The class teacher has the most expertise and should be imparting this on all the children. I would not be happy at all if my child was only being 'taught' a subject by a TA. No disrespect to TAs, but they are not teachers.

I think this depends a great deal on the circumstances and on the specific individuals involved. A good TA may well have much more practical experience at working one-to-one with a needy child or one with learning difficulties.

And they may also be able to be a little more flexible.

One of my siblings is a teacher. My mother spent a number of years working as a TA. She went into it having qualfied with a degree in a different profession, worked in that profession for a while before stopping work when she had children. She had then worked as a volunteer in a number of areas including teaching adult literacy and numeracy, working in playgroups and as a parent within various schools, not to mention bringing up 4 children of her own. By the time she started working as a paid TA she had a wealth of experience in dealing with adults and children and helping them to learn effectively, and was far better equipped than your average newly qualified teacher to work with the children who needed support. Certainly in the schools she worked in, she was not unusual among the assistants in having significant levels of relevant experience and knowledge.

A TA may well have more specialist knowledge than a teacher about supporting the needier children, because they tend to specialise, even though they have fewer qualificationbs on paper.

In the same way, a specialist Asthma nurse or Diabetes nurse may be better than a GP at dealing with the issues around those specifc diseases.

OP, I would not get hung up on who is teaching your son, but focus instead on the fact that he is not doing well in maths. It is possible that he is having one-to-one time with the TA so he thinks of them as teaching him, becasue he is ignoring the information provided to the class (or a smaller pat of it) as a group, or it may be that the teacher has delagated this task to the TA and that the TA's teaching method doesn't work well for your son.

I'd suggest meeting with the teacher to discuss your cioncerns about the fact that your son is striggling, listen to what they say about how he is doing and how they are supporting him, and then, when you have a clearer picture of how they see his progreess and what support they are offering, you can consider whether you want to raise futher issues.

maman

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

You would not normally get a TA taking sole responsibility for a class, however the school your son goes to is unusual if the class spans 4 year groups. I would approach the teacher first to discuss your concerns and raise the point that the TA may need to be involved if they are the only person who teaches your son maths.

Ever since the introduction of the 2 hours or so a week of 'free' time for planning, preparation and assessment in Primary schools TAs have been taking the classes on their own in many schools to save money. They don't however have the responsibility for the class, that still lies with the class teacher and it is up to him or her to deploy the TA as they think fit.


There are certain skills needed to teaching across three year groups but sometimes the range of ability/attainment can be no different to the range within a year group. Different adults (or no adult) working with groups across the class happens in mixed age and mixed ability classes.


So, to answer the OP's question it isn't unusual but I'd be surprised if the teacher has no input at all into your son's maths. That might be out of his sight with planning and feedback which the teacher is responsible for. However, I'd still make the appointment with the class teacher. If she says she doesn't know because she doesn't work with him and passes you over to the TA then I'd listen to the TA's explanation of the maths methods.


If you want to take up any abdication of responsibility for maths teaching further then it's the Head you should speak to.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Sounds like the teacher could be concentrating on those about to do their SATs/the rest of the class who haven't reached their expected levels and once they're over/the younger ones have got up to speed, she'll focus on the other ages in her group.

FWIW, I've not met a TA without a degree for a very long time - many are doing it to get experience so that they might be more likely to get an NQT placement, as they're highly competitive these days. Those that aren't already qualified teachers who want to work part time (who have small children and don't have easy childcare for the evenings), don't want the responsibility of managing an entire class or are waiting for a vacancy at a particular school/subject specialism, at any rate.

Lunar_Eclipse

Tricky one. The school is very small and there is only one teacher to cover the 4 school years in the class.

I don't envy the teacher, although in theory I wouldn't be happy with a TA teaching my child Maths. That said, primary Maths is very simple and doesn't necessarily require a qualified teacher to deliver it. So in reality it comes down to how well your child is doing with the TA, which seemingly isn't great. How much that's down to the fact it's taught by a TA or teacher probably doesn't matter.

Just approach the school about your son's struggles and see what they say.

[Deleted User]

If your son is struggling, whatever system they are using isn't working for him. Sometimes it can just be a lack of understanding between teaching staff and child. I am amazed how often my son doesn't finish work and its not even noticed when I ask about it.., i.e. a sign that my son is struggling with the given work. And he is supposed to receive extra support because of special needs! I sometimes wonder if the teacher has even looked at his work, even though its often marked. I think they are just too busy for 'analytical' thought on what problems exist, where they exist and what can be done about them.

I think there is often a mixture of levels within a class, even if its not related to different year groups because of differing abilities.

I would talk to the school, assess what they are doing, if there is a compromise available. It does sound, however, as if its a fairly small school and well, they are maximising their potential for problems by mixing year groups. Sorry.

BTW In my experience TA's are often highly qualified. At the least there is a level 3 BTEC they have to do which takes a lot longer than six weeks to complete. Whether they are any good at teaching however, depends on personality as much as qualifications. I've seen plenty of 'not so good' teachers too.

maman

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Tricky one. The school is very small and there is only one teacher to cover the 4 school years in the class.

I don't envy the teacher, although in theory I wouldn't be happy with a TA teaching my child Maths. That said, primary Maths is very simple and doesn't necessarily require a qualified teacher to deliver it. So in reality it comes down to how well your child is doing with the TA, which seemingly isn't great. How much that's down to the fact it's taught by a TA or teacher probably doesn't matter.

Just approach the school about your son's struggles and see what they say.

:eek:


I've studied biology to an advanced level and have a first aid qualification so I could probably manage to pass myself off as a GP if they gave me the simplest cases.:rotfl:

Poppy9

maman wrote: »

:eek:


I've studied biology to an advanced level and have a first aid qualification so I could probably manage to pass myself off as a GP if they gave me the simplest cases.:rotfl:

I think a hypochondriac would make a better GP

BrassicWoman

rosie-lee wrote: »

You suggest LilElvis, of pulling my child out of school and sending him over 10 miles away to one with same age classes !! ....

If I had serious concerns 10 miles would not be an obstacle at all.

bylromarha

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

FWIW, I've not met a TA without a degree for a very long time - many are doing it to get experience so that they might be more likely to get an NQT placement, as they're highly competitive these days. Those that aren't already qualified teachers who want to work part time (who have small children and don't have easy childcare for the evenings), don't want the responsibility of managing an entire class or are waiting for a vacancy at a particular school/subject specialism, at any rate.

Different areas of the country I suspect.

I manage Key Stage 1. None of the 7 TAs across the Key Stage have a degree. I can think of 3 TAs who have a degree in the school - 450 children, so not a small place.

Lynxe

bylromarha wrote: »

Can I suggest that with an age group that wide, it may be that the teacher is delivering a strand of maths to the whole class, such as addition, and giving this as whole class input.

The teacher then works with the yr 5+6 kids at their level, the TA with the yr 4s at their level? So not direct teaching, but expanding the main lesson in a way which is age/stage appropriate to year 4?

My vague solution to this problem is why I teach in a 2 form entry primary. The idea of yr3-6 in the same class brings me out in a cold sweat!

This is what I imagine is happening. I do have the pleasure (and it is a pleasure) of being -THIS- class teacher - Not exactly this, but my class are 19 children ranging from Y3 to Y6, with ability from "average" Y2 to Y7-ish. They are a pleasure to teach, and I love the challenge and experience of my role, but without my TAs our teaching would be sub-standard.

I deliver the main teach in 90% of my class - Where possible, I like to always main teach together, but there are always times where because of the age range, our objectives don't quite match (particularly with the sharp rise in standards alongside the new Curriculum...A whole other discussion for another time) and then I'm happier to hand a year group over to a TA to follow my planned input teach. Once main teach is over, my TAs and I work with different groups in order to ensure objectives are met. It's my decision, in line with school policy, to alternate my group input around the year groups and I'd rather do that than consistently hand a year group over, but that decision is down to individuals and schools.

I hope my random rambling around my own experience helps..