would you return the deposit

Old_Git

Tenant moved in June 2015 .They had a 12 month tenancy .
Rent was paid monthly in advance until this month .
Rent due January 1st .The tenant didnt pay .The tenant died a week later .
The family dont want the property ,there is no money in the bank to pay any rent .Keys have been handed back .

would you return the deposit .

I was advised by the agent not to return the deposit as the tenant didnt stay 12 months .

I did return it as it felt like grave robbing .

theartfullodger

The tenancy does not end/die with tenant: It continues "tenancy of estate of Mr xxx" until ended the normal legal ways (assuming England or Wales).

I would in any event return deposit, as simply the decent British thing to do. But explain to family sensitively that the tenancy needs ending & can we all sign a deed of surrender at the same time as returning deposit.

marksoton

Old_Git wrote: »

I was advised by the agent not to return the deposit as the tenant didnt stay 12 months .

I'd find a more " ethical " agent.

If they're prepared to chase the money in such circumstance imagine the way they'll F you over when it suits them.

I applaud you as a landlord. Compassion goes a long way.

davidmcn

Marktheshark wrote: »

The tenancy expired on death regardless of term.

No it doesn't, the executors step into the tenant's shoes, and the estate is liable for the rent etc until the tenancy is ended, whether by agreement or otherwise. Nothing wrong with deducting outstanding rent from the deposit IMO, plenty of other types of debt are routinely paid from the estates of the deceased.

PasturesNew

Old_Git wrote: »

I did return it as it felt like grave robbing .

Good man.

theartfullodger wrote: »

... simply the decent British thing to do....

Yes. This.

rosyw

davidmcn wrote: »

No it doesn't, the executors step into the tenant's shoes, and the estate is liable for the rent etc until the tenancy is ended, whether by agreement or otherwise. Nothing wrong with deducting outstanding rent from the deposit IMO, plenty of other types of debt are routinely paid from the estates of the deceased.

That's IF there is money left in the estate to pay the debts. OP has said there was no money left in the bank to pay the rent, under these circumstances the decent thing to do is to return the deposit to the family who may well be struggling to fund the funeral. It may not make good business sense but IMO is the right thing to do.

Speaking purely from my own personal experience, losing a loved one is bad enough, but when you also have to deal with people chasing money you haven't got at the time it's almost unbearable, even though the debt isn't "yours". ANY kindness like that shown by the OP really does make a difference. I wish there were more people around like you OP, the world would be a far nicer place.

ManuelG

Old_Git wrote: »

I did return it as it felt like grave robbing .

I hope your other tenants appreciate this kind of attitude and keep your properties well.

Old_Git

I didnt follow up the rent arrears .
The family asked how soon I wanted the flat cleared ,I said take your time. I also said take all the personal stuff and whatever you want /need .Leave the rest I will sort it .
To be fair I did know what was in the flat and it is now left part furnished .
New Tenant will need a bed .Two people viewing tomorrow.

Old_Git

I asked the deposit protection how I should return the deposit .
I have to claim it back ,and wait 30 days for payment then pay the family.
I have claimed ,but paid it from my own money .I didnt want the family to wait 30 days .

G_M

would you return the deposit

Is this a legal question or a moral one?

Legally, rent is due. So deposit can be used and if insufficient, court action could be taken.

Yes sensitivity at a time of death is good, but it's personal choice.

As davidmcm says the estate picks up all sorts of debts which have to be paid before any Beneficiaries inherit. "No money in the bank to pay any rent" at this early stage is premature - have the Executers searched for and valued all assets of the estate? Premium bonds? Investments? a Car?

Bear in mind also there's a possibiity the letting agent will demand their 12% (or whatever), irresepctive. Whether they should, or do, get it from the LL is another question - but there could be hassle from that direction.

I asked the deposit protection how I should return the deposit .
I have to claim it back ,and wait 30 days for payment then pay the family.
I have claimed ,but paid it from my own money .I didnt want the family to wait 30 days .

Seems overly thoughtful/generous. My mother died 11 months ago and I'm still dealing with her estate, paying bills, and unable as yet to pay any Beneficiaries of her will. OK, some estates are more complex than otherwise, but my point is there's no need to rush.

Old_Git

G_M wrote: »

Is this a legal question or a moral one?

Legally, rent is due. So deposit can be used and if insufficient, court action could be taken.

Yes sensitivity at a time of death is good, but it's personal choice.

As davidmcm the estate picks up all sorts of debts which have to be paid before any Beneficiaries inherit. "No money in the bank to pay any rent" at this early stage is premature - have the Executers searched for and valued all assets of the estate? Premium bonds? Investments? a Car?

Bear in mind also there's a possibiity the letting agent will demand their 20% (or whatever), irresepctive. Whether they should, or do, get it from the LL is another question - but there could be hassle from that direction.

The letting agent will let it again for free if the tenant leaves within 12 months .However as the flat wasnt cleared until today the agent hasnt advertised it .I advertised it using photos taken 6 months ago .I didnt give the address until I was sure the family had finished .