Invalid Will? Adopted children..

winnie85

Okay easy on the "derrr you are stupid" tones! I do fully understand what I am saying. I am saying it to describe in words the situation on all sides to indicate for those that have particular expertise in these things to follow. SO YES I DO GET IT. Obvious as it sounds to me too, Im wanting to describe the situation with her removal of natural parent ancestral claim as an example of how the law had indicated her claim so far. Its very relevant to these questions. If one can not ask what one IS entitlted to, its possible to start by finding out what one is not.

Yorkshireman99

winnie85 wrote: »

Okay some solid replies here starting to make light. Im really amazed by the law regarding children born/adopted after wills are made. Im thankfull to know this personally for my own knowledge as that is a weighty fact that more people need to be aware of! It doesnt make any sense at all but then alot of the british law in enamoured in non-sensical entries that can only have been inserted to protect a number of individuals and less belonging to a common / moral law.

I still think there is some loop being overlooked though. Something doesnt make sense in why she was removed from inheritance rights from her natural birth family because of the legal standing of this adoption? Doesnt add up.

I think you don't understand the legal consequences of formal adoption. The process means that all rights from the birth parents cease at the point of adoption. In their place the adoptee gains rights from their new parents equal to those they would have had if they were their birth parents. There is nothing sinister, or unfair, about this and it is widely known.

winnie85

So on the basis that the adopted mothers Will was made before she adopted a child, we can assume it was not a deliberate attempt to leave the child out. By all accounts it seems ( you would hope) by adopting a child she had intentions of providing for the child. The will was made just over 8 months before adoption so perhaps they didnt know at the time they would need to include anyone else in it.
The will does not specify to exclude any "after born" children. So in the instances of people having children after they made a will, whats the general advice.
I can imagine there are thousands of cases where this exact situation happens with natural children born after wills are made?

Yorkshireman99

winnie85 wrote: »

Okay easy on the "derrr you are stupid" tones! I do fully understand what I am saying. I am saying it to describe in words the situation on all sides to indicate for those that have particular expertise in these things to follow. SO YES I DO GET IT. Obvious as it sounds to me too, Im wanting to describe the situation with her removal of natural parent ancestral claim as an example of how the law had indicated her claim so far. Its very relevant to these questions. If one can not ask what one IS entitlted to, its possible to start by finding out what one is not.

I think the problem originates from the, frankly stupid, and ill informed, remarks made by the social worker. It is astonishing that someone in that position should not fully understand the legal consequences of adoption and even worse suggested to your friend that she retained some inheritance rights from the birth parents. I am sorry to say that your friend will just have to accept the situation.

Torry_Quine

winnie85 wrote: »

So on the basis that the adopted mothers Will was made before she adopted a child, we can assume it was not a deliberate attempt to leave the child out. By all accounts it seems ( you would hope) by adopting a child she had intentions of providing for the child. The will was made just over 8 months before adoption so perhaps they didnt know at the time they would need to include anyone else in it.
The will does not specify to exclude any "after born" children. So in the instances of people having children after they made a will, whats the general advice.
I can imagine there are thousands of cases where this exact situation happens with natural children born after wills are made?

To repeat, whether a child were born to the deceased or adopted if they aren't in the will then they don't inherit.

Yes there will be people who make a will and then have a child(ren) who don't inherit which is why a reputable solicitor will ask about this and will put a clause in the will if this could be an issue. This didn't happen.

winnie85

Sorry Yorkshireman99, I think in the throws of this thread ive not made myself very clear.

1. The enquiry about original natural birth parents ancestral claim is just for an example of experience of things so far. She is not persuing any case with this (well its too late now). In the shemes of social care these basic facts of who belongs to who can become very hazy and my friend was not given any clear advice of help in her adulthood to know that she was by law still connected to the adoption family. If she had of known, she could have asked to have been emancipated from the adoption family which would mean she could have been "adopted" back into her natural birth family and all of this be needless as she would be back in line for her natural inheritance.

2. The case im quering is to do with the, lets say "new" birth family ( the adopted family), which now we can assume has exactly the same rules applied as natural birth children.
So a question inline with any normal birth family. What happens when a child is born after the will was made?
The rest of the details we can put aside. Sorry i thought the backstorys would be necessary!

Yorkshireman99

winnie85 wrote: »

So on the basis that the adopted mothers Will was made before she adopted a child, we can assume it was not a deliberate attempt to leave the child out. By all accounts it seems ( you would hope) by adopting a child she had intentions of providing for the child. The will was made just over 8 months before adoption so perhaps they didnt know at the time they would need to include anyone else in it.
The will does not specify to exclude any "after born" children. So in the instances of people having children after they made a will, whats the general advice.
I can imagine there are thousands of cases where this exact situation happens with natural children born after wills are made?

As far as children born after a will are concerned it depends on how the will is worded. It is legally quite possible to include any subsequent children. However, in the case of a child subsequently adopted they would AFAIK lose that right upon adoption. Nevertheless it would be quite possible to have another will prepared to include the adopted child by naming it under its new identity. The whole story illustrates the importance of making sure wills are kept up to date.

winnie85

Thanks for all the replies. Many of them repeating the same answer. I appreciate it, just wanting to fully investigate this and make sure all angles are brought forward. Especially with those that are experienced in these complex fields. If you have legal or personal experience.

elsien

I think emancipation from parents is an American legal concept. I don't think there is a way to reverse the adoption and recreate legal ties to the birth family and certainly not as an adult.

As far as your second point goes, people make wills and then sometimes just forget about them. It's only when you see a solicitor and they mention it that you think about it again. Mine's been in my to do list for about 15 years, as I'm leaving money to family (not children) who have increased in number since I made it.

Yorkshireman99

winnie85 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Many of them repeating the same answer. I appreciate it, just wanting to fully investigate this and make sure all angles are brought forward. Especially with those that are experienced in these complex fields. If you have legal or personal experience.

Sorry to appear pedantic but the basic principles are quite clear. The complexity has arisen because of a basic misunderstanding of the legal principles. They are.

Adopted children lose all natural inheritance rights from their birth parents upon adoption.

Children not born until after a will is made may lose their entitlement under it depending on the exact wording.