CPM 1st Appeal Rejected - What to do next

kenwildon

This is my first posting in the forums so please forgive me if I haven't met any protocol requirements or have missed the blindingly obvious.
I have trawled through many of the more recent posts on this thread but I might have missed something.

I used the MSE Template to appeal against a PCN issued by PCM when I parked in a small housing development to visit a person who lived there. Long story short... within the enclosed parking area there was NO signage indicating any parking rules of any kind (limitations, permissions, charges etc) There was such a sign some distance away from this enclosed area which was not visible unless searched for, which I did later.
So I wrote to them appealing the notice and advising them that I would not be paying.
Their reply arrived today dismissing some of my objections out of hand, quoting the Supreme Court judgement of Nov. 4th ref excessive charges then going on to say 'In light of the above there is NO NEED for us to cover ALL of the points in your appeal.... (Capitals are mine for emphasis)
They then go on to suggest that I can either pay up and shut up, or appeal to IAS.

My question, therefore, to members is:-
Should I follow their first proposal? or....
Should I appeal to IAS (having noted doubts about their impartiality from other forum members)? or......
Do nothing..........
Or should I do something else?

I have toyed with the idea of sending them a cheque for the alleged charge and trusting them to return it to me uncashed in the event I win the appeal... but if I can't expect to win the appeal.....?

Redx

you need to read the NEWBIES sticky thread at the top of the forum

it sets out what is available and if you should appeal to the IAS , or not

some say yes, others say dont bother

it even lists an alternative strategy for ADR instead of the IAS, but dont expect an IPC member to agree to it

the other choices are:-

IGNORE for 6 years , which may or may not result in a court case via the small claims court

PAY (which we dont recommend so nobody is going to tell you to pay)

once you have read that thread and what I have said, the choice is yours

the only other way of beating this is to complain to the landowner or MA and get the charge cancelled , otherwise there are no easy options

their reply they gave does not list all of the options, only what they want you to do

so its actually

appeal to the IAS (extremely likely to fail)

suggest an alternative ADR for resolution (they definitely wont agree)

IGNORE unless you get court papers (the preferred route)

COMPLAIN to the landowner and get it cancelled (also preferred as well)

PAY in full (nobody expects you to do this)

kenwildon

Many thanks for your speedy response Redx. They make 2 points in relation to your notes above.

Reference the landowner they say they have a signed confidentiality agreement at will only reveal that detail 'at court stage' which is obviously designed to scare the recipient.

And IAS are their chosen ADR. Is there another arbitration service provider anyone can suggest and if so should I or they ask such an ADR Scheme to adjudicate?

Most of the sticky advice I had trawled through, thanks, and my tendency is to go for the 'do nothing' option though this approach could be a little nerve racking methinks?

PS. If I do nothing, having told them in my template letter that I'm not going to pay, should I be worried about any retaliation they may attempt?

Redx

they do these things precisely to intimidate and scare people, that is their whole business model, so glad you are now learning what the regulars here already know

its a legalised sc@m by parking scumpanies, highway robbery

if you had read the NEWBIES sticky thread (post #3) , plus parking pranksters blogs on this subject, you would know what alternative ADR they are actually talking about

the fact is that you can request it and they will turn you down as they only wish to use the biased kangaroo court called the IAS (see parking pranksters blogs)

so why do it ? you may ask ?

answer, so if this goes to court you can show you tried to sort the issues out and appear reasonable in what you wish to happen, hence the template letters suggested by coupon-mad and prankster

its called "going through the motions" , in case a judge gets to see the paperwork , a paper trail

yotmon

kenwildon wrote: »

This is my first posting in the forums so please forgive me if I haven't met any protocol requirements or have missed the blindingly obvious.
I have trawled through many of the more recent posts on this thread but I might have missed something.

I used the MSE Template to appeal against a PCN issued by PCM when I parked in a small housing development to visit a person who lived there. Long story short... within the enclosed parking area there was NO signage indicating any parking rules of any kind (limitations, permissions, charges etc) There was such a sign some distance away from this enclosed area which was not visible unless searched for, which I did later.

Read up on what rules IPC members need to adhere to when using signs. Then gather evidence to the contrary. Don't forget, they can turn up 'tomorrow' and place dozens of signs at the location, take photographs and use them as evidence, so preempt what they may do.

I have toyed with the idea of sending them a cheque for the alleged charge and trusting them to return it to me uncashed in the event I win the appeal... but if I can't expect to win the appeal.....?Oh, yeah, they will certainly hang on to your cheque awaiting the appeal result. Don't hold your breath !

It's up to you whether you appeal to the IAS, - have a read in the newbie section on the pro's and con's on appealing. As I have already stated, gather any evidence you may need, then 'ride' the debt collectors letters and ignore everything other than real court papers.

The_Deep

I would advise you to appeal and if they refuse you, you have an anonymous travesty of natural justice which you can show to a judge if they are daft enough to try court.

beamerguy

kenwildon wrote: »

This is my first posting in the forums so please forgive me if I haven't met any protocol requirements or have missed the blindingly obvious.
I have trawled through many of the more recent posts on this thread but I might have missed something.

I used the MSE Template to appeal against a PCN issued by PCM when I parked in a small housing development to visit a person who lived there. Long story short... within the enclosed parking area there was NO signage indicating any parking rules of any kind (limitations, permissions, charges etc) There was such a sign some distance away from this enclosed area which was not visible unless searched for, which I did later.
So I wrote to them appealing the notice and advising them that I would not be paying.
Their reply arrived today dismissing some of my objections out of hand, quoting the Supreme Court judgement of Nov. 4th ref excessive charges then going on to say 'In light of the above there is NO NEED for us to cover ALL of the points in your appeal.... (Capitals are mine for emphasis)
They then go on to suggest that I can either pay up and shut up, or appeal to IAS.

My question, therefore, to members is:-
Should I follow their first proposal? or....
Should I appeal to IAS (having noted doubts about their impartiality from other forum members)? or......
Do nothing..........
Or should I do something else?

I have toyed with the idea of sending them a cheque for the alleged charge and trusting them to return it to me uncashed in the event I win the appeal... but if I can't expect to win the appeal.....?

Most here consider IAS as a waste of time as they favour PPC's and not the motorists. Unscrupulous operators like PCM subscribe to IPC/IAS who are also unscrupulous, because they know they will win and chances are high your appeal will be rejected.

IAS run their own little scam, check the site out and scroll to the bottom https://www.theias.org/appeal-flow-chart
See STANDARD APPEAL and NON-STANDARD APPEAL

How the authorities allow this scam to operate is beyond us.

However, why pay anything to PCM to feed their scammers habit

1: You have said there were no signs in the area you parked
2: You said there was a sign further down which was not easily seen, was it covered by the bushes
3: You said that they quoted the Beavis case ? The Beavis case was all about unfair charges. From what I can see, you did not claim this. more so there were NO signs where you parked and the sign further down was NOT clear or was obstructed.
What has this got to do with the Beavis ... NOTHING ?

I see no reason why you should NOT appeal through the IAS scammers. Whilst you do this you buy yourself time, it will no doubt be rejected anyway and as the IAS clearly state, "The result will not be binding on you"
THE SCAM IS .. Because it is rejected, the majority of people will think that they have to pay ... and they do ?
IPC/IAS/PPC's = EXTREME SCAMMERS


4: Have you taken pictures of the area with no parking signs and, the sign further down, that "cannot be seen"

5: These PPC's have a bad habit of saying "this is our final response", that is complete rubbish and to be ignored as a fabrication. They live in the clouds.
Whether or not they respond to letters thereafter is their problem, any letter thereafter which is ignored by the PPC IS very valid in court

Hit these idiots with this information

It is because of these scammers that there is a petition to government
PLEASE sign it and get your friends and family to do the same
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925

Mike172

I know its negative but I dont know why anyone bothers responding to UKCPM since the move to IPC. It was a doddle when they were with the BPA but since the move to IPC they lost any shread of credibility they had.

I did say on this forum that UKCPM were a laughing stock and should move to the IAS. Now they are still a laughing stock.

kenwildon

Thanks everybody for your speedy replies. Very much appreciated.

My thinking is that having used the MSE template letter which ends with the following closing statement:-

If you choose to pursue me, please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

.... I might be well within my rights to not respond to this latest, or any subsequent correspondence from them until they do address the specific points raised.

However, should I remind them of this point in my letter just to be on the safe side? Perhaps send them another copy of the letter with specific points highlighted.... or just let it run? I'm quite happy to present my photographic/video evidence in court if it gets that far, but in the same way they appear to not tell me the name of the landowner I also reserve the right to save my evidence until it reaches court.

What do you think?

Thanks again

The_Deep

Most here consider IAS as a waste of time as ...

Are you sure about that Beamish? My assessment would be that it is about 50/50, and many of those who say ignore are CM disciples who believe every word she utters.

Whilst she knows more than most about parking law, she does not hold a monopoly on common sense, and in this instances, common sense favours appealing.

Umkomaas

However, should I remind them of this point in my letter just to be on the safe side?

What are you hoping for by way of response? Whatever you say will have no positive outcome for you. You've already told them that there'll be no further correspondence if they don't respond with answers, so how will you phrase your reminder?

'I said I wouldn't send you another letter, so here's another letter to remind you that I won't be sending you another letter if you don't answer my queries raised in my other letter'

They won't be responding to any questions if they've not already done so. Just await their next move; you don't have control of the situation.