advice needed about notice 21

cuddlebunny74

i signed a tennancy agreement in 5th april 2007 & paid a deposit, in june 2015 we had to sign a new tennancy which included in the tennancy was a s21 notice which was never discussed with us when signing the deposit was then placed in the scheme & today i was just issued with a another s21 but it includes the date in june i signed the tennancy not todays day. any advice would be apprecieted

G_M

Please be a little clearer with the exact dates and what happened at each eg

* 5/4/07 signed tenancy (fixed term? For how long? This is important)
* 5/4/07 paid deposit (are you sure of date? If 2 days later it needed protecting!)
* xx/4/07?? tenancy start date
* was deposit placed in scheme? date?
* Was Prescribed Information served? Date?
* did the 2007 fixed term end? What date? What happened if anything?
* xx/06/15 signed new tenancy
* xx/06/15 tenancy start date - new fixed term? How long?
* xx/06/15 Paid deposit (again? - had the first one been returned?)
* xx/06/15 S21 Notice served - please state the date of expiry
* xx/xx/15 deposit registered in scheme
* xx/xx/15 Was the 'Prescribed Information' served on you?
* 10/1/16 served S21 Notice. Is this a copy of the one in June (see date of expiry) or is it a new one (in which case please give date of expiry)

My guess is both the S21 Notices are invalid, but it depends on your answers.

cuddlebunny74

signed originally tenancy 5/4/07 it was 12 months tenancy. paid deposit same day. tenancy started that say although didn't move in until the 7/4/07. deposit wasn't placed in any scheme. we went on to a month by month tenancy until last june 2015 which was signed 7/6/15 for 6 month tenancy we never paid deposit again & never recieved any deposit back was paid in to the scheme on 12/6/15.we recieved a piece of paper with login details to check it had been paid in near the end of june cant remember exact date. notice was served on 7/6/15 when we signed new tenancy but didn't know anything about it she told us it was standard housing form.date on notice is 8/12/15 the new noticed served on the 10/1/15 also has the same date 8/12/15

G_M

I ran out of breath by the time I'd read to the end of line 2.....

that's kind of why I gave you a nice simple example to follow.

cuddlebunny74

sorry lol will try it easier so used 2 just typing everything

*signed originally tenancy 5/4/07 it was 12 months tenancy then went on to a month by month 1
* paid deposit 5/4/07 deposit wasn't placed in any scheme
* tenancy started 5/4/07 although didn't move into the 7/4/07
* 7/6/15 signed new 6 month tenancy
* never received deposit back or paid new deposit
* deposit was put in scheme on 12/6/15 received a piece of paper with login details to check near end of June 2015
* notice was served on 7/6/15 when we signed new tenancy but was told it was just a standard housing form date on notice 8/12/15
*second notice was served 10/1/16 & had same date on as previous 8/12/15
Hope this is better to understand

G_M

So I think:

G_M wrote: »

* 5/4/07 signed tenancy -12 months fixed term
* 5/4/07 paid deposit
* 5/4/07 tenancy start date
* deposit not placed in scheme (not required pre 6/4/07)
* Prescribed Info N/A

Up to here all fine

* 4/4/08 tenancy goes periodic
* 4/4/08 deposit not registered - penalty can be claimed/S21 invalid
*4/4/08 PI not served - penalty can be claimed/S21 invalid

Deposit should have been registered. See the case of Superstrike Vs Rodrigues. Penalty can be claimed and any subsequent S21 invalidated.

* 26/3/15 Commencement Date of Deregulation Act. Landlord has 90 days to register deposit
* 24/6/15 deposit deadline

* 7/06/15 new tenancy signed 6 month fixed term
* 7/06/15 tenancy start date - new fixed term 6 months
* 7/6/15 S21 served with expiry date 8/12/15 (valid date, but prior to deposit registration)
* 12/06/15 deposit registered
* xx/06/15 PI not served (UNCLEAR)
* end june - login details received (this is not the PI)

If PI information not served, any S21 is invalid (& penalty can be claimed)
If S21 served before deposit registered, S21 is invalid

* 10/1/16 S21 Notice served. Copy of the one served 7/6/15

The S21 served 7/6/15 and dated 8/12/15 is invalid for several reasons.

The S21 today is simply a copy since if it was a brand new one it would need an expiry date of 10/3/16 (2 months from now)

For rules on deposits and valid S21 notices, see :
* Deposits: payment, protection and return

See also
* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

cuddlebunny74

definately didn't get any PI just double checked with partner

cuddlebunny74

ty for all the information not sure where to go but have a lot to think on

dancingfairy

What are you trying to achieve? Prevent being thrown out incorrectly? To have a new fixed term? To go periodic? The knowledge you have can be used as bargaining power to achieve whatever it is you are trying to achieve.
Bear in mind that if a landlord wants you out they will get you out eventually so its whether you want to stay and fight or go but get something in return (flexibility in moving, good references, deposit back in full etc).
You seem to be in a strong position.
Good luck.
Df

rtho782

It sounds like what has happened, is that in June 2015 the LL decided they wanted you out, but couldn't throw you out as they hadn't protected your deposit, at this point, you could have sued them for not protecting it.

So, they made you sign a new tenancy and protected your deposit. You should possibly have taken advice before signing. They made this as short a tenancy as they legally could (6 months) and served a S21 on signing the tenancy so that they can use it when they feel like. (a horrible tactic of Landlords to avoid having to wait 2 months as is intended to turf you out, I think this is now illegal, but this is too late for you as it wasn't in June 2015).

It looks like you're now in a situation where there is a valid S21 and you need to move out when the S21 expires. It has a previous date on it as it is a copy of the earlier notice.

Pixie5740

Tenants do not need to leave by the expiry date on a Section 21. The Section 21 does not end the tenancy. Landlords cannot end the tenancy, that can only be done by the tenant or a court.

That said, there is no defence against a correctly issued Section 21 so one way or another the tenant will have to move. So unless going for social housing the tenant is better off finding somewhere else to live and giving their own notice.