Homebuyers Survey - Lots of Issues

cwhite49

Hi all,

My partner and I are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a 3 bedroom 1930s semi-detached property. The property was put on the market at £210,000 and we got our offer of £205,000 approved.

Our homebuyer’s survey has come up with a lot of category 3 problems and I was wondering if anyone more in the know than us can advise on whether it is still worth proceeding with the property or if we should just accept our loss.

I’ve made a summary of the category 3 problems at the end of the post.

The surveyor values the property at £205,000.

Really would appreciate any comments and advice as we love this house but don’t want to blindly walk into something that is going to waste us a lot of money. If anyone has any idea of the cost of these repairs I would be most grateful.

Many thanks,

Catherine

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1. Dampness, rot and infestation
a. Dampness in ground floor walls - concealed timbers should be opened up and fully investigated
b. Inadequate sub floor ventilation - instruct contractor to open up flooring to identify problem
c. Penetrating dampness in rear bedroom ceiling - concealed timbers should be opened up and fully investigated
d. Condensation affecting internal areas - better balance between heating and ventilation
e. Soil and slabs to the rear are laid too high and bridge the damp proof course

2. Roof including roof space
a. Original clay tiles replaced with heavy concrete - strengthening and additional support needed
b. Rebedding of hip tiles and roof overhauled and repaired
c. Roof space inadequately insulated - extra insulation needed
d. Damage to rear section of flat roof causing penetrating dampness - urgent repair needed - need to instruct contractor to provide estimate

3. Rainwater fittings
a. Rainwater disposal system to flat roof over garage, kitchen and porch is poor - urgently upgrade the system
b. Rear rainwater downpipe should be diverted on to the felt roof rather than enter the bathroom hopper as at present - redirect rainwater downpipe

4. Main Walls
a. Defective brickwork at the rear porch area - defective area to be cut out and replaced and brickwork repointed
b. Vegetation on rear wall needs to be removed
c. Kitchen extension single skin walls can be affected by penetrating damp and condensation - structure should be upgraded to comply with current standards

5. Garages and permanent outbuildings
a. Inadequate fire protection at door between garage and kitchen - should be upgraded to comply with current standards, may need specialist advice
b. Rainwater ingress was noted under the garage door into the garage - steps should be taken now to prevent this
c. No step down into the garage from the kitchen extension - should be upgraded to comply with current standards, may need specialist advice

6. Drainage
a. Gap around the rear kitchen gully allowing water and other waste into the soil - requires urgently filling

7. Electricity
a. Electrical wiring may not comply with current standards with no evidence of any recent testing - further advice required from electrician

8. Heating and hot water
a. Boiler is old - replacement parts may be difficult to obtain - budget for replacement and get advice from a Gas Safe or approved registered contractor

borborygmous

cwhite49 wrote: »

Hi all,

My partner and I are first time buyers and have had an offer accepted on a 3 bedroom 1930s semi-detached property. The property was put on the market at £210,000 and we got our offer of £205,000 approved.

Congratulations!

Our homebuyer’s survey has come up with a lot of category 3 problems and I was wondering if anyone more in the know than us can advise on whether it is still worth proceeding with the property or if we should just accept our loss.

It's normal for surveys to be scary even if there is nothing major wrong, but a certain amount of of worry is a good thing.

Are you more concerned about major disasters or just waiting a bit longer for a better deal? Are prices going up in your area? You need to try to factor that in if so. I think it's also worth seriously reflecting on much time you should spend and therefore if you are prepared to go through the whole process again? I only did it once, but I certainly wish I'd done it faster.

In general I'd say do your best to make slightly conservative guesstimates for each thing (overestimate). Take that as your worst case. I think it's rarely necessary to fix everything the surveyor says you should, so it's worst case, not most likely cost. Can you live with the worst case?

I’ve made a summary of the category 3 problems at the end of the post.

The surveyor values the property at £205,000.

Really would appreciate any comments and advice as we love this house but don’t want to blindly walk into something that is going to waste us a lot of money. If anyone has any idea of the cost of these repairs I would be most grateful.

Many thanks,

Catherine

---

1. Dampness, rot and infestation
a. Dampness in ground floor walls - concealed timbers should be opened up and fully investigated
b. Inadequate sub floor ventilation - instruct contractor to open up flooring to identify problem
c. Penetrating dampness in rear bedroom ceiling - concealed timbers should be opened up and fully investigated
d. Condensation affecting internal areas - better balance between heating and ventilation
e. Soil and slabs to the rear are laid too high and bridge the damp proof course

Dampness reported in surveys is very common, and usually not a problem. Doesn't mean it's not in your case of course, and I'm no expert. I was paranoid about it and got an inspection done by a damp specialist. He came back with a long list, but turned out nothing expensive, and having actually lived here for a few years actually none of that was really a problem. In my case the floors were concrete though, so rotting timbers not an issue. Specialist survey was I think roughly 200 quid? The bigger risk for me at the time was losing the deal because of delay (London), may not apply to you. Alternative is to get a builder to quote for it - obviously take the opportunity to ask them questions about what/why needed / what happens if you don't do it.

However, if structural (are they?) timbers are damaged, that's obviously a big deal, and from this and further down it sounds like that might be a possibility. So it may not be paranoid at all to get a specialist inspection.

Did you smell any mouldiness? Did the windows / walls have condensation? Is anybody living there (more people -> more water -> easier to see problems)? Can you go back early in the morning to see what it's like then? (probably max condensation visible then) Take somebody with a good sense of smell

2. Roof including roof space
a. Original clay tiles replaced with heavy concrete - strengthening and additional support needed
b. Rebedding of hip tiles and roof overhauled and repaired

Tiling sounds unusual, but flat roof needing repair definitely not unusual

c. Roof space inadequately insulated - extra insulation needed

Surely to be expected, since standards go up all the time.

d. Damage to rear section of flat roof causing penetrating dampness - urgent repair needed - need to instruct contractor to provide estimate

Personally I would want to find out more about this, not only because of cost of repairing roof, but damage to timbers.

Flat roofs normally need replacing or major work every 20 years. There are sites online with examples of how much it'll cost you for various building jobs like this in your local area (you'll need to know approx roof area and type of construction - I guess "tiled" is probably enough to know)

3. Rainwater fittings
a. Rainwater disposal system to flat roof over garage, kitchen and porch is poor - urgently upgrade the system
b. Rear rainwater downpipe should be diverted on to the felt roof rather than enter the bathroom hopper as at present - redirect rainwater downpipe

It's common for fault to be found with this sort of thing. If you get a builder to look at the roof/damp timber, they can quote/explain re this too.

4. Main Walls
a. Defective brickwork at the rear porch area - defective area to be cut out and replaced and brickwork repointed
b. Vegetation on rear wall needs to be removed
c. Kitchen extension single skin walls can be affected by penetrating damp and condensation - structure should be upgraded to comply with current standards

5. Garages and permanent outbuildings
a. Inadequate fire protection at door between garage and kitchen - should be upgraded to comply with current standards, may need specialist advice
b. Rainwater ingress was noted under the garage door into the garage - steps should be taken now to prevent this
c. No step down into the garage from the kitchen extension - should be upgraded to comply with current standards, may need specialist advice

6. Drainage
a. Gap around the rear kitchen gully allowing water and other waste into the soil - requires urgently filling

All sounds very normal. Sorry to state the obvious but which you need to fix probably depends on your circumstances - suggest finding out in each case what's the worst that could happen, how likely, and decide if that matters to you.

7. Electricity
a. Electrical wiring may not comply with current standards with no evidence of any recent testing - further advice required from electrician

Very common. Standards go up, wiring doesn't, unless somebody puts the work in, so an electrician is going to tell you some work needs doing - and it will likely be genuine stuff - but not necessarily very important, all depends if you have kids, nature of the specific problems etc. May only cost a few hundred even if you do it, can't know without inspection.

8. Heating and hot water
a. Boiler is old - replacement parts may be difficult to obtain - budget for replacement and get advice from a Gas Safe or approved registered contractor

Ditto, but likely to be more expensive than electrical work when boiler eventually goes (depends on house size etc., maybe very roughly 1500). Old boilers can go on for a long time though (newer ones don't have such a good reputation...).

If boiler still OK and parts available shouldn't cost much for a few years yet.

If you want to reduce the risk, you can get a "gas safe register" person to inspect it, I did that (< 100 quid I think?) and got the wiring inspected (80 quid). Of course again, you have to weigh it up against your time/stress, whether house prices are going up etc.

ReadingTim

I'd get a damp specialist to do a report into the matters raised in 1, and a roofing contractor to provide a quote for a new flat roof in 2d, the rest of the items can be done as and when you have the time/energy/money for them - they're a mixture of routine maintenance needed for the upkeep of any property, and a natural product of changing standards.

You don't need to always keep up to date with the latest standards (any more than you need to fit airbags to an e-type Jag or other classic car), but you do need to occasionally splash the cash to maintain a property - it's protecting your investment, not wasting money

However, as the survey agreed with the price you offered, it suggests that the property is priced to reflect the condition it's in, therefore you might not have much luck in negotiating a price drop to pay for the work which really should be done. Once you've got specialist quotes you have to decide whether you can afford it - you're unlikely to be able to borrow to fund the work, so it'll have to come from your deposit - the change in LTV may therefore make the decision for you!

cwhite49

Hi both, thank you so much for your responses - they're really useful.

@borborygmous

Are you more concerned about major disasters or just waiting a bit longer for a better deal? Are prices going up in your area? You need to try to factor that in if so. I think it's also worth seriously reflecting on much time you should spend and therefore if you are prepared to go through the whole process again? I only did it once, but I certainly wish I'd done it faster.

House prices are going up in our area and it really seems to be a sellers' market at the moment. Houses that are coming up within our price range area being snapped up within days so really we don't want to have to go through the hassle again. Your comments have really put our minds at rest!

In general I'd say do your best to make slightly conservative guesstimates for each thing (overestimate). Take that as your worst case. I think it's rarely necessary to fix everything the surveyor says you should, so it's worst case, not most likely cost. Can you live with the worst case?

I'm sure we can live with the worst case, as long as anything potentially dangerous is sorted, we would be happy to make the other repairs as and when we have the resources to do so in the future I think.

Dampness reported in surveys is very common, and usually not a problem. Doesn't mean it's not in your case of course, and I'm no expert. I was paranoid about it and got an inspection done by a damp specialist. He came back with a long list, but turned out nothing expensive, and having actually lived here for a few years actually none of that was really a problem. In my case the floors were concrete though, so rotting timbers not an issue. Specialist survey was I think roughly 200 quid? The bigger risk for me at the time was losing the deal because of delay (London), may not apply to you. Alternative is to get a builder to quote for it - obviously take the opportunity to ask them questions about what/why needed / what happens if you don't do it.

However, if structural (are they?) timbers are damaged, that's obviously a big deal, and from this and further down it sounds like that might be a possibility. So it may not be paranoid at all to get a specialist inspection.

Did you smell any mouldiness? Did the windows / walls have condensation? Is anybody living there (more people -> more water -> easier to see problems)? Can you go back early in the morning to see what it's like then? (probably max condensation visible then) Take somebody with a good sense of smell

The house is actually covered by a damp guarantee - I'm not sue whether or not this will cover all of the issues that were spotted in the survey though. Either way I think you're right that it would be safest to get a specialist damp survey done. At least then we know where we stand. No smell of mould every time we've been and the house was always warm and cosy. We did notice some slight condensation on the window by the stairs so definitely worth a second opinion I think.

Personally I would want to find out more about this, not only because of cost of repairing roof, but damage to timbers.

Flat roofs normally need replacing or major work every 20 years. There are sites online with examples of how much it'll cost you for various building jobs like this in your local area (you'll need to know approx roof area and type of construction - I guess "tiled" is probably enough to know)

Thank you, yes this sounds quite worrying to me too. I'll definitely check online for quotes.

Very common. Standards go up, wiring doesn't, unless somebody puts the work in, so an electrician is going to tell you some work needs doing - and it will likely be genuine stuff - but not necessarily very important, all depends if you have kids, nature of the specific problems etc. May only cost a few hundred even if you do it, can't know without inspection.

Luckily my partner's father is an electrician so he can definitely help with the inspection for this at least. We did expect that the house may need rewiring at some point as it's not been rewired since 1998....

Ditto, but likely to be more expensive than electrical work when boiler eventually goes (depends on house size etc., maybe very roughly 1500). Old boilers can go on for a long time though (newer ones don't have such a good reputation...).

If boiler still OK and parts available shouldn't cost much for a few years yet.

If you want to reduce the risk, you can get a "gas safe register" person to inspect it, I did that (< 100 quid I think?) and got the wiring inspected (80 quid). Of course again, you have to weigh it up against your time/stress, whether house prices are going up etc.

We also had a suspicion that we may be shelling out for a new boiler too so not really a surprise here. I think it's a good idea to get an inspection at the least.

Thank you so much for your detailed response - really useful!!!

@ReadingTim

I'd get a damp specialist to do a report into the matters raised in 1, and a roofing contractor to provide a quote for a new flat roof in 2d, the rest of the items can be done as and when you have the time/energy/money for them - they're a mixture of routine maintenance needed for the upkeep of any property, and a natural product of changing standards.

Yes I think this is a good idea, these do seem to be the most pressing issues. The family who are selling have lived happily in the house for 9 years so it's definitely not crumbling to the ground. I think they perhaps haven't been as scrupulous about the upkeep as they could have been so it may just be a case of us updating and repairing as and when - as you say.

However, as the survey agreed with the price you offered, it suggests that the property is priced to reflect the condition it's in, therefore you might not have much luck in negotiating a price drop to pay for the work which really should be done. Once you've got specialist quotes you have to decide whether you can afford it - you're unlikely to be able to borrow to fund the work, so it'll have to come from your deposit - the change in LTV may therefore make the decision for you!

Thank you, yes the value was based on the condition it is currently in. I think it will be a case of us shelling out this money ourselves. We do have a fair bit saved over and above our deposit, however we were hoping to spend the majority of that on furnishing costs.

Thanks for your advice, we will definitely get specialist quotes and hopefully be in a much more informed position then.

Thanks again!

Catherine

borborygmous

Remember to get a damp specialist who is just a surveyor and doesn't actually carry out any work - much better that way as it avoids conflict of interest.

Doozergirl

I'm usually one to say that surveys aren't usually as bad as they read, but I think you've got the potential for a little money pit there. Some of things others have described as normal, I do not consider normal at all. Common, but not normal.

It hasn't been maintained correctly at all. Have the present owners been there long and how much were you expecting to spend on remedial work?

The damp guarantee will absolutely not cover all of the issues raised. The guarantee is for an injected DPC, not penetrating issues or those caused by the DPC being bridged (which it is). Injected DPCs are pretty useless as they rarely address the true issues and this house sounds like a perfect example of a soggy house where the owners have been sold a pup in a DPC. When was it carried out?

The report is pretty thorough for a homebuyer's survey, which is nice to see.

I would look at and budget for new roofing, not repairs.

Grylls_Heard

Hi there, thought I would jump in and see if anybody would be able to advise myself.

Had a valuation for mortgage and on there it states:

'Instruct a specialist contractor to inspect the whole property and report on internal dampness and the condition of all timbers including the sub-floor and roof void. All necessary works to be carried out. The inspection to be carried out irrespective of existing'

Obviously we are looking to get a few quotes for the work but before we go signing our life away just if anybody has any experience and could advise if this if going to cost in the region of 2-3k as seen on the net? We are first time buyers so all new to this but I presume we need to get this checked before signing the contracts.

The property is mid terraced and was previously rented accommodation but has been vacant for several months. Would this create a bit of damp as there would be no heating or air flow?

Thank you in advance

pinkteapot

I disagree with an earlier reply that damp warnings are normal. I've never had any in any survey I've had done! Though the oldest house I've bought is 1990.

Definitely get a damp survey (and as recommended, from a surveyor, not a contractor). 2 (a), (b) and (d) would also concern me.

One thing I also noticed was the reference to a flat roof over the garage and kitchen. I'd find out when it was last replaced, and perhaps get someone to look at it, if it's more than ten years old. Flat roofs can need replacing every 20 years or so.

Yes - you need to get all these investigations done before signing the contract. Well, technically before EXCHANGING contracts. You can sign and return the contract to your solicitor if you like - you do that before exchange. You can tell your solicitor not to exchange until you confirm you're proceeding. But to be on the safe side, you might prefer to just hold on to the contract for now.

When you viewed the house, did you view it and think of it as a fixer-upper, or were you under the impression that it didn't need any work? This will affect your view of the survey results....

cajef

Grylls_Heard wrote: »

Hi there, thought I would jump in and see if anybody would be able to advise myself.

Better to start your own thread rather than jumping in and highjacking someone else's.

camptownraces

cwhite49 wrote: »

1. Dampness, rot and infestation

e. Soil and slabs to the rear are laid too high and bridge the damp proof course

2. Roof including roof space
a. Original clay tiles replaced with heavy concrete - strengthening and additional support needed

2(a) was a very common practice in the 70s and 80s. The current tiles are much heavier than what the roof timbers were designed for. Ignore it at your peril - either strengthen the timbers or retile with clay tiles.

1(e) is due to ignorance on the part of a previous owner.

The house hasn't been maintained properly. Just because prices are rising, you don't want to get into a situation where you can't afford essential repairs.