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Heating a large space **HELP**

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  • Hello and welcome.

    I'll go through a few options, I am sure others will chip in too.

    GAS

    With it being a small one bedroom flat, the cost of installing gas is unlikely to be an economical option, even in the medium/long term. I know you did not mention gas, but I thought I would get it out the way as an option. You will have the cost of a new boiler, piping, radiators and ongoing maintenance. For a large property this cost may be worthwhile, but not usually for a small flat.

    That leaves the all the electric options.


    Instant Heat Electric Radiators
    Ignore any marking articles about specialist infra-red heaters or ones with clay cores that will heat your room using electric more efficiently than others. It is nonsense. These usually cost a lot of money and are no more efficient than a £50 oil heater / panel heater from B&Q. Wall mounted ones come in at around £150 - £200

    If you are in and have these on for most of the day, the cost can soon mount up.
    So it depends what your living habits are.

    The last, but usually most cost effective option is a modern storage heater system.


    Storage Heaters
    Storage heaters of old have a bad rep. But modern ones, installed in suitable properties can be very effective.

    They charge at night, using a much cheaper night electricity tariff (economy 7). Then they release that heat during the day. Modern ones can be set to release more of their heat later in the day.

    There is a larger upfront cost to these (compared to portable heaters), but are the cheapest and most economical long term solution. There should be very little (if any) maintenance costs.
    Another bonus of economy 7 is that you can programme many domestic machines (wachince machine/dishwasher) to start at specific times so you can run them early morning to use the cheap rate too. Some people worry about having machines on while you may be in bed, but each to their own.

    The one caveat with storage heaters and economy 7 is that you have to try and shift as much of your electric usage to the night period as possible. To get the best out of it you should be aiming for a minimum 65% of electricity use at night. So you have to consider your living habits to work out if it is good for you. The bulk of that 65% will be heating but the other things I mentioned do contribute.

    You need to go through and work out your current electricity use in KWH, start taking weekly readings. Do you have usage data? This would be useful to see what you use on an annual basis.

    In addition, because they charge at night and release heat during the day, some people struggle to get their head round this fact. They cannot be used like instant heaters, so you have to plan ahead a bit more.


    Insulation/Draught Proofing

    Your biggest saving (solution to keep the flat warmer for longer) may come from the little things. You need to look at ways to minimise heat loss in the flat itself.

    As it is a ground floor flat, you are lucky to have the insulation of the flat above (rather than a cold roof).

    Is it a period property with old period windows or modern with double glazing?

    If the former and you want to keep these period features look at good thick curtains and consider secondary glazing.
    Is the front door well insulated? All these little draughts add up to heat leaking from the property.
    Make sure you don’t block up ventilation in the kitchen or bathroom though as you will end up with a mould problem!
    Good luck!

    Thanks for your reply, very helpful and greatly appreciated.

    Firstly, the property is double glazed, however the windows are 15years old and therefore aren't as effective as newer more recently developed double glazed windows. Unfortunately we cannot change anything which effects the exterior appearance as it is a listed building!

    I am going to get some thick curtains as my first port of call, there is a substantial amount of cold coming in from the windows, and no doubt heat being lost too.

    Storage heaters seem to be my best bet, can I ask you a few questions please:

    Can I decide when the heat is released from them ? For example I will charge them overnight on economy 7, will go to work at 8, back home for 6pm. Ideally id like the heat to be released around 5pm so I can benefit it when I return home from work - is this doable ?

    Do you know approximately how much they cost to run p/h (on economy 7) ?

    And finally, all other things such as washing machine/dish washer etc I won't be able to use during the night as I don't think they have times (im not at home at the moment and can't check). So the 65% you mentioned earlier would only be made up of me using my storage heaters if that makes sense.. is this gonna be an issue ?

    Further more my hot water is supplied my an electric boiler, I don't suppose you know if this will be on constantly or will it just 'fire up' when I turn the hot water tap on.. Sorry to be vague but im not actually at home at the moment to check!

    Again, your help is appreciated.

    Thank you
  • CashStrapped
    CashStrapped Posts: 1,302 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 1 January 2016 at 11:18PM
    Don't get too distracted by the double glazing being 15 years old. It is better than single glazing at least...although not period for the property.

    Re-doing the double glazing for heat retention/cost saving purposes would be un-economical anyway so do not let anyone talk you in to doing it.

    Dimplex is a well established storage heater brand, they have a range of options. Some just charge at night and are fully manual. Some have to option of an evening release if I remember, but many do release heat throughout the day. Most let you control how much you want released.

    Others charge at night but also have a fan assist (to move the heat around) and allow you to use day electric as a boost (not a good thing to do though.

    They also have a fully automated quantum range which will be more expensive and seem to be more automated. I have no idea if it is worth the extra though.

    Many people have isues with storage heaters because they do not learn how to use them and then use them incorrectly and complain they do not work or are ineffective.

    As a quick calculation:

    A standard 3kw heater on for 6 hours during the day using a standard tariff of 10 pence per KWH would cost £1.80

    A 3KWH storage heater charging for 6 hours during the night on a E7 tariff costing 6.65 pence per KWH would cost £1.20

    That is calculated using two tariffs from the same company (you can find cheaper tariffs in both cases).

    While the difference for 6 hours is not so large (60p). Multiply that over a number of years....and the difference will soon add up.

    However it all depends on when you are in the property.

    You have do start taking meter readings on a daily basis to see how much you currently use.

    Only you can work out if it may be worth it in the long run.

    The more you use for heating during the day, the more a storage heater makes sense. If you only use the heating for a small period before bed, the less it makes sense.

    You would be better off buying the most powerful portable/wall mounted oil filled heater you can if the latter is true.

    Regarding the electric water tank. That can be timed to only heat the water during E7 hours (as Cardew pointed out above). As long as the tank is well insulated, it should stay hot for the rest of the day.
  • Depending on the lighting etc . It may be possible to "lower" the ceiling by creating a tented ceiling with sheets or curtains. This would be a little less severe than living in a tent but could reduce the effective volume you need to heat.

    Good luck.
  • Presumably there is already an eco 7 meter in the flat ? These sort of flats nearly always have this already installed in an all electric property. If this is the case pay attention to the timer switch which controls the cheap 7 hours.
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie-from-the-Boro Posts: 6,945 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 2 January 2016 at 4:09PM
    Heating- electric

    Eventually after much research you will have to go electric and as others said only night-store is economical. A 150 litre PartL insulated night-store water cylinder and enough storage-heating for your large living area, Modern night-store systems have an additional 13a off-peak and standard rate electricity source via a front facing supplementary radiant heater built into the same unit.

    Example 1
    Example 2

    Panel or radiant heaters with timers & thermostats are widely available from £50 a pop and infra heating for kitchen & bathrooms are beamed and dispense immediate heat to a human body. Radiant is good convection and fan is useless as is paraffin or gas. You will need an E7 tariff and metering system and E7 wiring and water controller. The cheapest tariff should be DD / you read meter per month and an e-account. Best of luck, want more - ask lots of good people here to help.

    Fan assisted (below 2) will deplete stored core price heat, a radiant panel (below 1) will give you extra instant day-rate heat.

    2_518.jpg
    fan%20assisted%20storage%20heater.jpg

    Heat Loss Reduction Values are ish !

    - secondary glazing + insulated shutters 77%
    - secondary glazing + heavy curtains 66%
    - stand alone insulated shutters 60%
    - double-glazing 55%
    - honeycomb blinds 36%
    - modern insulated roller blinds 22%

    If you have a chimney in your living area you can kiss goodbye to a large wad of cash every winter month. To even contemplate GSHP or air~to~air you need an EPC of C+ and in reality a B, .. .. .. in a grade listing that's an almost certain no-no. Wet electric is without dispute the most prohibitively expensive option known to man.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • ml262
    ml262 Posts: 12 Forumite
    No point in me going over the other suggestions again, but you may wish to consider that you can install a standard wet central heating system, but powered by an electric storage boiler. It could give you the appearance of a normal heating system.

    The other one to consider is air source heatpumps. These can work with a wet system or can have an air to air unit on the wall and are very efficient. The snag of this is the requirement for an external unit, which may be difficult if you say your home is listed.
    Regards
    Martin
    _______________________________________________________________________
    I'm only human, please bear with me!
  • I have read through all of the responses and i am very grateful for all of your suggestions.

    The living room at the moment is around 6 degrees (although I literally have no form of heating running what so ever as I consider it a waste of money until I have some proper measures in place), I wear triple layers and have a hot water bottle zipped inside my top layer to keep warm whilst watching TV at the moment haha - its no way to live!

    I have arranged for an economy 7 meter to be fitted on 12th Jan and once this is done and I have changed my account over to this tarriff I will purchase 2 storage heaters.

    Like I said, I do appreciate your suggestions but I am a little confused in regards to exactly what storage heaters I should be purchasing. There seems like a lot of choice out there and I don't want to be in a position where I have spent £5-800 and the room still isn't any warmer - although this hopefully wouldnt be the case especially when combining these with some insulated curtains to cover the large windows.

    Can somebody please recommend some specific storage heaters which you think would adequately heat the room to around 17degrees, without costing a fortune to run... Around £1.20 per heater per hour on economy 7 would be ideal.

    Thank you so much for your help so far!
  • In addition to the above the EPC rating of my flat is D, if that has any baring on the heaters I should be using. Thank you
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,060 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler
    edited 5 January 2016 at 9:25AM
    It is essential that you appreciate that all storage heating, in fact all electrical heating, is 100% efficient. This means that you get EXACTLY the same amount of heat for the same amount of electricity consumed.


    The sole advantage of storage heating over 'conventional' daytime heating is that with storage heating you buy your electricity at a cheaper off-peak rate, store it(as the name would suggest) and release that heat during the time you want that heat.


    However if you need, say, 100kWh a day to heat your room and you get your electricity at 6p/kWh it will cost £6 a day with any storage heater.


    The big disadvantage of storage heating is they can 'leak' heat during the day when you might be out at work. Modern storage heaters are better in that they leak heat less than older models so they might only use, say, 90kWh a day to meet your need(using the hypothetical example of 100kWh above)


    Attempting to live in a room at 6C is IMO completely stupid and dangerous to your health regardless of your age. Why not get rid of the internet/phone which apparently has priority over heating.


    As stated above a cheap infrared heater pointed in your direction or wrapping yourself in an electric blanket(cost around 1pence an hour) will keep you warm.
  • suki1964
    suki1964 Posts: 14,313 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    6oC? That's madness, it's not even that cold outside

    If you are finding it too difficult to warm that room, then decant into a room you can afford to heat

    Other ways to warm a room are

    Bubble wrap the windows

    Hang curtains, you can get cheap ones from charity shops. Who cares what they look like if they do the job. Line them with cheap fleeces pinned to the insides. Keep them closed during the hours of darkness

    Get an electic top blanket if you can afford one. Otherwise fleece blankets. My house can be costly to heat so we always have lap blankets ( as do most people I know)

    Light candles. Even tea lights can take the chill off a room. Make sure they are in holders away from anything flammable

    I find if the temp drops to below 14 in my sitting room, I start falling asleep and have no energy. I can't imagine what sitting in temps lower then that is doing to you
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