CPM Parking notice - help with appeal

Whitstable2015

Hi,
Can someone provide some guidance on how I handle the next stage of my appeal with CPM (UK Car Park Management)?

The situation is the following:

1. The register keeper of the car received a 'Forma Demand" letter for an alleged 'breach of contract' for 'not displaying a valid permit' on 12 October. This letter was sent on 17 November and received on 21 November i.e. 54 days after the alleged contravention.

2. The 17 Nov letter it states 'We recently issued a PCN to your vehicle on 12 October" but the driver nor the registered keeper ever got a Windscreen ticket nor has CPM provided photographic evidence of one being issued. Plus they didn't confirm the address of the location of (it wasn't retail just private land at a disused warehouse).

3. Because of 2. (and I hadn't read the super helpful comments on this forum or the MSE pages) we wrote to CPM to appeal the decision stating: we had never been issued with a Windscreen ticket as they suggested and that they had not provided information of the location so couldn't recall parking there. This was posted on 27 Nov.

4. On 18 Nov, I received a reply from CPM saying the appeal was unsuccessful as a ' breach of the terms and conditions of parking occurred'. What their decision is based on is below, plus my comments in italics:
- a 'valid permit was not clearly displayed in the vehicle windscreen' + the signage states 'permits must be clearly displayed' Comment: there is notpay&display machine at the location. Plus the signage is not clear at all - it says you must pay for a valid permit but doesn't provide instruction on how to other than if you're unclear to call them. Note that I only parked 15 mins there .
- my vehicle is within clear view of the warning signs (they provide photographic evidence).
Finally they state:
- if you were not the driver at the time of contravention, to provide them with the driver name (they alleged that they can get info of the driver un the S.4 of the Freedom Act 2012).
- They say that 'As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standards Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 of this rejection'. Comment: why are they suggesting only the IAS. CPM is a member of the BPA and has the IPC logo on their letters - can I not go via the POPLA route?

What shall I do? Welcome thoughts.

- Unfortunately I hadn't read your helpful post / seen your template letters for the first appeal (my letter was short saying I didn't recognise the location plus had never had a Windscreen PCN from their company. NB I never confirmed the driver).

Should I know re-write to CPM using the first stage appeal template letter? And include now my objections which are:
a) The vehicle was never issued with a Windscreen PCN as they suggest.
b) We received only written notification of the alleged contravention on 12 Oct on 21 Nov - that's 54 calendar days after the dated letter or 58 days of when we actually we're informed)
c) the signage is unclear/ambiguous in it's instructions on how to pay
d) there is no grace period included in the signage
f) plus the more general pts included in other forum threads including the Newbies on about breach of contract and not instruction further debit collection so as to incur more unreasonable costs, and the costs are unreasonable (£100 per day to park!).

Or should I know write to the IAC with my appeal. Reading the Newbies threads, the IAC seems less favourable to the POPLA / BPM route? CPM is a member of the BPM - can I not ask to go via the POPLA route over the IAC or both?

Thanks in advance for comments - in order to meet the 21 day deadline I need to write in the next couple of days.

Redx

you need to re-read the NEWBIES sticky thread and also get your ducks in a row as you havent named either body correctly

its IAS , not IAC (the appeals system for the IPC)

and its BPA , not BPM , who use POPLA for appeals

UK-CPM use the IAS from the IPC for any appeals (you dont get to choose) , so you can if you want to appeal to the IAS, if the code works and if CPM have allowed you an IAS appeal within that 21 days from rejection

but if they have stated that you are too late, you cannot appeal it

its already been appealed to UK-CPM, and failed , so pointless appealing to them again, also pointless writing to them and definitely never phone any of them either

the IAS is a kangaroo court with little chance of winning, so most people would advocate ignoring both for 6 years UNLESS you get court papers

if you read about ADR on the parking prankster blog dated 30th oct 2015 you could try what he advises as regards ADR

SO YOU COULD TRY AN IAS APPEAL, JUST DONT EXPECT TO SUCCEED if you do so

this isnt a fair process and you have already appealed (and failed) with CPM and are likely to fail at the IAS

read post #42 here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5383840 as it explains the basics of the sc@ms involved

POPLA is not an option and hasnt been for some time (8 months)

the fact you know nothing about a windscreen ticket is called "ghost ticketing" and is well documented over the last few years, they issue one , take a photo and then retrieve it, or it "blows away" , or somebody else "removes it" , its all a ploy to get people like yourself to write in and argue, dropping people in it usually

the driver would have been the one getting the windscreen ticket (if one was issued) , but they waited the required 28 days and then issued the KEEPER with an NTK before day 56, so this is now the one being fought, not the driver ticket

you need to learn the difference between the two and how this sc@m works, bearing in mind that it is just an alleged invoice for a misdemeanour (rule breaking) and they have 6 years to enforce this invoice (which is a civil court small claim)

its court papers you need to actually fight this if you wish to fight it, until then the rest of these "procedures" are smoke and mirrors because its a money making sc@m and not regulated and is deliberately biased against you so do not expect to win unless it gets to small claims court

The_Deep

the IAS is a kangaroo court with little chance of winning, so most people would advocate ignoring both for 6 years UNLESS you get court papers

"Most people", that's debatable, some say ignore, others appeal to the IAS, I am one who favours the latter.


The reason for this is that the anonymous "adjudicator" probably a minimum wage gofer, will probably have delivered such a partial, ill considered, and perverse decision that, should it be shown to a judge, he would throw the case out of court.

Your decision, but appealing cost them money and severely weakens their case should it ever get to court.

Coupon-mad

Thanks in advance for comments - in order to meet the 21 day deadline I need to write in the next couple of days.

I hope you didn't bother with IAS stage. Get wise to the options, read the NEWBIES thread post #3 about IAS stage and why not to bother (IMHO). Nothing to stop you sending a response like here (below) but that's all, the boring letter chain awaiting you this year won't go away:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5386022

That thread also shows you why not to bother, why put yourself on the back foot?

HTH