Recall training for dog who prefers running & chasing to food

cepheus

sheramber wrote: »

a very good article

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-i-stop-my-dog-chasing/

Yes that's a good strategy. The chasing behaviour fits all the predatory characteristics listed but without any biting. I'm also reasonably sure there's no anxiety either, seems happy and socialised. Just a little concerned that being on the lead too much might frustrate an energetic dog.

Time to find a new toy. It will have to be something appealing, I can get out of his mouth, and doesn't disintegrate. I've tried the Kong balls already so it will have to be something new.

Mrs_pbradley936

I doubt you will correct this. When experienced trainers have puppies (or horses) they never, ever let them know that they are able to run about and ignore you! The breed matters although with your dog training should be simple. You could correct it but the methods that will work will likely be distasteful because it means making the dog fear the consequences of not obeying you. Since he is not a police or army service dog and nobody's life depends on his behaviour I would only let him run free when it suited me.

Mrs_pbradley936

I can tell what you ought to have done from him being a tiny puppy because it is what all gundog trainers of any merit do. The chase and retrieve instinct is very strong (as you know) and the secret is that you do not let him have every ball or stick he sees.

You train a dog by repetition and association as in every time you say "sit"
you want him to sit. A recall is what you want all the time but you are confusing recall with retrieving.

Your dog thinks that every ball/stick/toy he sees you want him to go after. You have allowed him to think that and now you want him only to do it when it suits you. So repetition and association are not the ways to teach a retrieve.

From a small pup you should have only let him go after about half of what you threw. Sometimes you would pick it up, other times another dog would be sent (hard if you are only training one) and still other times it is left where it falls. The lesson being that he only chases after something he is sent for.

If a dog goes after a retrieve unbidden in a trial he will be eliminated.

If a police dog brings down a jogger without being sent to stop him the handler will in in trouble. Hence a police dog must see runners very frequently but not bring them down every time.

It dog training parlance it is called "running in" details here:
http://gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7435

sheramber

My collie/retriever cross had an excellent recall until he was 18 months old. One day he took off after a bird which flew along level with nose- it had a nest and was leading him away from it.

He charged through a barbed wire fence, down a gore covered slope, through another barbed wire fence and ran up the main road after it.

Calling him was pointless.

He did come back the same way he went with scratches all over.

From that day he went on a long ( 20 ft) line as we were moving to a rural crofting area with free roaming cattle and sheep, never mind the rabbits so I could not let him develop the habit of running off.

Strangely, he has never chased another bird and ignores the wild pheasants that visit our garden.

I used David Ryan's method but instead of redirecting to one of the toys- which didn't work- I taught him an instant down and used that. Threw the first toy, sent him, downed him then called him back and rewarded by throwing the second toy, or letting him go on for the first. Sometimes I kept him down and walked up to him before releasing him.

I kept it variable so he stayed down until given the next cue and didn't anticipate.

This worked well as once he lay down the drive to go for the first toy was broken.

I proofed it in the garden first.

12_month_challenge

I have a now 8 year old Boxer who turns into Usain Bolt the minute he is off lead.

We tried everything. He even failed at training school

I gave up trying after 7 years and bought a 50 foot lead from ebay. I end up with reams of it in my hand but he gets to run around and I still have hold of him.

cepheus

I'm sure there is plenty of useful advice on this thread, and many who have similar problems, so thanks for all your suggestions.

krlyr

Reading back on your post again - at 11 months, I wouldn't give up hope of him never recalling or being safe on lead, he's only very young. And given his age, he's likely reaching the 'teenage' stage where training often gets forgotten, usually helped with hormones kicking in.

However, I would hold off neutering him until he's around 18 months old, at least. As a large breed, and with two breeds in him prone to joint issues like hip & elbow dysplasia, he really needs those hormones to let his body physically mature properly.

6 months of life on a longline and doing some intensive recall training will do him far less harm than neutering early - it won't guarantee his joint health, but it will help and there's no point having a dog that learns recall 6 months earlier if it means he's on-lead half his life due to dysplasia and arthritis!

I would say, invest in a longline and a pair of gloves (fingerless cycling gloves are good as they're lightweight and you have your fingers free for lead clips, feeding treats, etc.), work on recall in the home (lots of opportunities..e.g. have him wait on his bed when you go to the kitchen to make his dinner, and 'recall' him to his bowl - his Lab appetite should certainly help there!) and on walks. Find some secure fields, either free (try tennis courts, ask around at livery yards if they have fields or arenas you could use, if you know anyone with private fenced in carparks or school fields you could borrow, etc.) or hired, but remember even then to only recall if you know he will be very likely to respond (so even within the field, you might want to start with the longline to make it easier).

You can provide exercise in other ways, not just off-lead running. Again, I'd wait until he was 18 months, but running or cycling with dogs is a good way to stretch their legs and the dog can either be attached to you or the bike (using the proper attachments for safety), I took up running using the C25K plan when we moved and I lost my secure off-lead field for the dogs. We do some cycling when we go on holiday (as there's some good, flat dirt track roads we can use so they're not running on pavements), even at 9 my two love whizzing around - they pull us up the hills, so it's a real workout for them.

There are trainers that do recall workshops too - check out www.apdt.co.uk to find a local trainer who uses modern methods, not spray collars or other aversive methods that may backfire on you.

cepheus

He always obeys his wait command before meals. He doesn't roam either and is very attached to me, despite wanting to play catch.

Yes I'm concerned about early neutering partly for that reason. The Vet was well up on this subject and suggested a reversible chemical implant to see if it changes his behaviour, although it would have the same disadvantage if carried out early.

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering_definitive

sheramber

Have a read of this thread

http://www.labradorforums.co.uk/25-health-issues/78086-suprelorin-chem-castration-experiences-update-p7.html

Mrs_pbradley936

I would not have a chemical implant placed in my dog. That said I would not have any behavioural problems with any dog I owned because being an experienced trainer I would anticipate any problems and nip them in the bud.

The issue is usually that a dog has been allowed to think that he can rule the roost because he has never been put in his place when he first started acting up. Novice owners misread the body language of their dogs all the time. The result being an almost fully grown dog that is difficult to manage. Not much of a deal if it is a small dog but even pulling on the lead is a problem if the dog is the size of an English Springer Spaniel or bigger. The dog may not be aggressive although some are to other dogs or people. Just refusing to walk to heel on a lead is hard work, the more so if the person has a bad back or is pushing a pram.