Is Great Unspoken Credit Card Fraud Rife now in East London and Elsewhere?

agarnett

Just thought I'd share a Christmas shopping experience:

I was in a large major name supermarket in East London and as part of my shopping, I bought a couple of gift cards for two young families in our extended family (they particularly can use the money far better than I can choose).

So the first thing I put through the till is two Christmassy decorated gift cards and ask the assistant if I can load forty quid each on them.

Just as a courtesy I showed my Amex card and asked can I pay with this? That immediately caused a look of consternation and the light went on for the checkout manager to attend my enquiry. The answer was no ... debit cards only. I showed my Nationwide VISA credit card. Surely I can use this? No. Debit cards only and be used to load cash onto gift cards.

Turns out that they have had such a problem with stolen cards in the store that this is regrettably their local policy.

Credit to the checkout manager and the major supermarket however, because our friendly chat resulted in the policy being waived as I and my card was assessed as no risk.

But while I was there, I was also told that they'd had to close their overnight automated cashless petrol station facility recently because it was almost drained one night by systematic use of stolen cards (at £99 max spend per card).

Question is, why are we kept completely in the dark about this huge crime wave? Various agencies and politicians love congratulating themselves on reducing burglary statistics, but so what? Burglary ain't where the criminals make their money anymore, and so it has been for a decade I reckon.

Surely it makes a complete mockery of CHIP and PIN security when cards and PINs get into the wrong hands so regularly now?

CKhalvashi

It's certainly possible that this is the case, although I can't see how one spate of crime, presumably by one gang, can be considered epidemic on the country, though.

Superscrooge

I've just had a look at the UK credit card fraud figures and 2015 figures not yet available. However up to 2014 chip and pin had greatly reduced credit card fraud compared with previous years when you used to just sign the credit card slip.

I've never had difficulty using credit cards at automated petrol pumps so I suspect this is just a local issue.

http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/plastic_fraud_figures/

agarnett

How local do you want to make it before you dismiss it?

I have a family member who works at Westfield and when I mentioned my experience I discovered it is also a huge problem to retailers there. That means it is a huge unspoken problem to you, the ignorant punters, because you pay for the privilege of continuing to use your card accounts without too many problems by funding the criminal activity in the form of additional retail mark-ups to cover the retail losses. Remember that the lion's share of the losses are not incurred by the card issuers and acquirers but by the retailers. Even if it were only a local problem to retailers, the additional loss-covering mark-ups by nationwide retailers would be spread throughout the UK to maintain consistent pricing. I think we are talking big potatoes - by which I mean heavy organised crime - not one East London gang :rotfl:

Whose credit card fraud figures are actually available publicly? ... "The UK Cards Association is the trade body for the card payments industry in the UK, representing financial institutions which act as card issuers and acquirers." ... So, bearing in mind that the figures don't come from retailers, what do these figures you found actually mean? Do you really know or are you just repeating something much like the burglary stats get repeated i.e. without enough thought about their source and spin?

I've never had difficulty using credit cards at automated petrol pumps so I suspect this is just a local issue.

Maybe you don't get out much at night? I can remember the fiasco at Shell stations for the best part of a year when CHIP & PIN was in its first year or so (not being able to pay at the pump or even to use the pump before having my card pre-authorised after having to go to the window first). That was around 2006/7 I believe?

PS What's a card acquirer? Surely when I receive a card, I become one too? Is a criminal stealing my identity and intercepting a card in my name, also an acquirer of my card? Methinks the association strictly means something else by that term, but what exactly? I think their membership is probably as restricted as their published statistics ...

bearcat16

A friend of mine who has worked for the Met for years says card theft and especially card cloning have reached insane levels in the last two years. Mainly perpetrated by Eastern European criminal gangs who operate on an industrial scale.

You don't hear much about it because it's not politically correct to blame a crime wave on Eastern European immigrants, even if that is the truth of the matter.

CKhalvashi

bearcat16 wrote: »

You don't hear much about it because it's not politically correct to blame a crime wave on Eastern European immigrants, even if that is the truth of the matter.

I wouldn't say an entire crime wave has come from Eastern Europe, but possibly some of the card fraud.

What you tend to find is that certain pockets of crime tend to fit with certain nationalities on a very general level, however there are a large number of exceptions to this.

bearcat16

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I wouldn't say an entire crime wave has come from Eastern Europe, but possibly some of the card fraud.

What you tend to find is that certain pockets of crime tend to fit with certain nationalities on a very general level, however there are a large number of exceptions to this.

You may not say it, but that is exactly what my friend says, based on his own experience.

Specifically, he said the UK is like a paradise to them, with a complacent and (comparatively) rich public, a toothless judicial system thats easy to evade and very high level of credit card ownership.

Everyone in the force knows it, but it's hardly ever discussed for fear of accusations of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.

joe_mcclaine

@bearcat16 - Your friend is right.

There's A LOT of stuff that doesn't make the papers because it's 'not in the public interest' to report such matters ... it upsets folk.

duchy

It doesn't sound like the stores in East London are making any effort to keep it quiet. So not sure why you think it's a great secret.

Perhaps @More crime in East London@ is a bit of a non story - it's hardly new -so the media aren't interested. My 85 year old MIL grew up in the East End and crime was higher back then than almost everywhere else too. It's the old story that you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear when it comes to East London. East London has always being blighted by the criminal element -a bit of gentrification and a big shopping mall won't stop the rot. It's too deeply in-bedded over centuries. Obviously with so much development in the area property developers and anyone selling homes have a vested interest in not promoting the real facts abut the area as it would impact on their bottom line though/

planteria

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I wouldn't say an entire crime wave has come from Eastern Europe, but possibly some of the card fraud.

whether you'd say it or not doesn't make it true/untrue;)
there are specific crime models which are very closely linked with groups from certain other countries. crime against/via retailers include several examples.
we live in a PC nation, and one of our problems is that in trying to avoid stigma and stereotype we allow some crimes to continue.
somehow, that needs to change, and everyone needs to be treated equally.

Twopints

agarnett wrote: »

PS What's a card acquirer? Surely when I receive a card, I become one too? Is a criminal stealing my identity and intercepting a card in my name, also an acquirer of my card? Methinks the association strictly means something else by that term, but what exactly? I think their membership is probably as restricted as their published statistics ...

Card acquirers are (generally) banks that process credit card transactions.