Turning part of my back garden into a parking space

smfdurham

I currently park on a lane opposite my house, this is ok for now but I'm looking to buy a new car and ideally I would like to park it off the lane to avoid it getting scratched!

I have a back garden which backs into some allotments. The only way to drive to the back garden is by driving through the allotment car park and along a small lane which belongs to the private allotments.

I could easily remove a fence panel and make an area suitable for parking in my back garden but would I need planning permission, or the permission of the allotments?

Appreciate any thoughts!

Simon

System

What rights are in your deeds for using the allotment carpark and the lane? At a guess none or possibly on foot.

You wouldn't need planning permission but would need the permission of the allotment owner. If you try to do it without permission then all they need do is erect their own fence or even just bollards on their own land that prevents you getting the car on to your garden.

Davesnave

!!!!!! wrote: »

If you try to do it without permission then all they need do is erect their own fence or even just bollards on their own land that prevents you getting the car on to your garden.

Or, even more inconvenient, just large pile of manure or green waste which would prevent you from getting out!

The way forward here is negotiation with whoever owns the allotment land. They will not provide a right of way for free, nor pay the legal costs of creating one. On the other hand, you will increase the value of your house if you can achieve off-road parking.

I would decide on a ball park figure and the means of raising it before proceeding.

smfdurham

Appreciate the advice! Residents often park in the allotment car park and no one minds as there is ample space for everyone (sure that would change if there wasn't enough parking for allotment people!)

I'll let the allotment land owners know my plans and go from there, hopefully we can reach an agreement and as you say it should have a positive impact on property value

moneyistooshorttomention

In their position (ie the allotment owners) then, assuming they agree to this, if they have any sense they would require half any increase in your house value. That would be on top of you covering all costs of doing this.

It may prove to not be financially worthwhile if any of those allotment holders have any financial nous.

MisterBaxter

Whoever owns the allotments is unlikely to simply grant you permission. They could agree to some sort of temporary license that would allow you to cross the land but wouldn't convey any permanent rights, there would be an annual charge associated with this and possibly a maintenance charge for the upkeep of the access. If they granted you permanent rights then it would potentially sterilise the land for any future development which they would be foolish to do unless it was made financially worthwhile which would probably mean it isn't financially viable for you.

If you or any of your neighbours have been using the road for access to rear gardens for at least 12 years then rights of access may have already been established meaning some of the value in the land is already diminished. If you were to create access in to your own garden without telling anyone and maintained that access for 12 years then the right would become established; I'm not encouraging you do this but just stating that it is an option. If you didn't spend too much on the gates/hardstanding then it may be a simple and cheap option to proceed without saying anything to anyone and just hope it goes unchallenged.

Who actually owns the allotments, is it a private owner/cooperative or is it the the Local Authority with management outsourced to a allotment organisation? Some owners may be more willing than others to enter into negotiations.

Davesnave

MisterBaxter wrote: »

Who actually owns the allotments, is it a private owner/cooperative or is it the the Local Authority with management outsourced to a allotment organisation? Some owners may be more willing than others to enter into negotiations.

This is the crux of the matter, as well as the monetary incentive you are willing to offer to the owners(s.) It may not be possible or worthwhile for them, or you, to proceed.

This is why I think you should decide on a ball-park figure which would fall within your own definition of 'worthwhile.'

force_ten

very well put by mister baxter

I think any landowner would be very reluctant to allow a permanent right of way to the rear of your property over their land

if the allotment land went for redevelopment then the right of way would be a major issue

speak to the allotment owners but i would say that it is not going to be easy to establish

moneyistooshorttomention

MisterBaxter wrote: »

Whoever owns the allotments is unlikely to simply grant you permission. They could agree to some sort of temporary license that would allow you to cross the land but wouldn't convey any permanent rights, there would be an annual charge associated with this and possibly a maintenance charge for the upkeep of the access. If they granted you permanent rights then it would potentially sterilise the land for any future development which they would be foolish to do unless it was made financially worthwhile which would probably mean it isn't financially viable for you.

If you or any of your neighbours have been using the road for access to rear gardens for at least 12 years then rights of access may have already been established meaning some of the value in the land is already diminished. If you were to create access in to your own garden without telling anyone and maintained that access for 12 years then the right would become established; I'm not encouraging you do this but just stating that it is an option. If you didn't spend too much on the gates/hardstanding then it may be a simple and cheap option to proceed without saying anything to anyone and just hope it goes unchallenged.

Who actually owns the allotments, is it a private owner/cooperative or is it the the Local Authority with management outsourced to a allotment organisation? Some owners may be more willing than others to enter into negotiations.

Valid points generally.

I think the 12 years quoted would be wrong though. 12 years is the length of time a squatter needs to be squatting on someone else's (Registered) land in order to be able to nick the ownership off them basically (under what is called "adverse possession").

However, having the use of someone else's land in this fashion (ie as a passageway) comes under "Prescriptive Rights". Someone may (or may not) be able to claim Prescriptive Rights to keep on using someone else's land as a passageway against the owners will if they have been (provably) doing so for over 20 years. That is, of course, subject to any unwilling land-owner put on the receiving end of a "prescriptive rights" claim not taking the decision to buy bulk supplies of drawing pins to "accidentally spill" on the land...

Property owners are told that, if other people gain rights over your land, then their property increases in value - BUT the owners property decreases in value.

MisterBaxter

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Valid points generally.

I think the 12 years quoted would be wrong though. 12 years is the length of time a squatter needs to be squatting on someone else's (Registered) land in order to be able to nick the ownership off them basically (under what is called "adverse possession").

However, having the use of someone else's land in this fashion (ie as a passageway) comes under "Prescriptive Rights". Someone may (or may not) be able to claim Prescriptive Rights to keep on using someone else's land as a passageway against the owners will if they have been (provably) doing so for over 20 years. That is, of course, subject to any unwilling land-owner put on the receiving end of a "prescriptive rights" claim not taking the decision to buy bulk supplies of drawing pins to "accidentally spill" on the land...

Property owners are told that, if other people gain rights over your land, then their property increases in value - BUT the owners property decreases in value.

I thought that the 20 year requirement was reduced to 12 under the 'Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009' but I may well be wrong; the principles are the same, just the timeframe is different.

I don't think it would be an 'Adverse Possession' issue as no land is being taken (stolen), there would be no change in ownership. If others have been crossing the land for any length of time then a general 'Right of Way' may already be established in which case the owners may not be too concerned about another person doing the same.

It may or may not increase the value of the property of the person asserting their rights, having the right of way registered certainly makes life easier when selling as there is less to explain to prospective buyers.

The person losing the land to a right of way claim certainly loses out as it restricts future use of the land, worse still they retain the responsibility for maintaining the land and would be liable for any third party claims should someone suffer loss or injury as a result of poor maintenance.

smfdurham

Thanks for all the input, there are 2 neighbours who have lived in their houses for over 30 years who park behind their gardens and have done so for a very long time (unsure if over 12 or 20 years). What we are looking to do is a bit different as we couldn't park behind our garden without blocking someone in, the 2 neighbours who park behind their gardens are on the end so they can park behind their gardens without blocking anyone in. We would be looking to park in our garden, so I think the best thing to do will be to talk to the neighbours to see if they have permission to park or have just done so. The land is owned by the parish council