Panasonic HDD Recorder recording with subtitles

SuzieSue

Hi

Panasonic DMR-HWT250EB Smart Freeview HD and Freeview Play PVR with 1TB HDD Recorder

I've just bought one of these and I want to record something with subtitles. There is an option on the timer record setting but in the manual it says that you can only use it if you set the conversion to something other than "off".

Could someone explain what conversion means and why I have to change it from off in order to record with subtitles.

Thanks

grumbler

I would expect subtitles to be always recorded.
Then, when playing back you can switch them on/off.
This is how my old recorder and my PC with TV tuner (both not HD) work.

googler

What model number?

SuzieSue

googler wrote: »

What model number?

This one, thanks:

Panasonic DMR-HWT250EB Smart Freeview HD and Freeview Play PVR with 1TB HDD Recorder

Nilrem

Subtitles on digital TV are carried as part of the mux (along with say secondary audio), and require syncing with the timing on the video.audio portion for the specific channel (not a problem when live).
If you do any conversion of the video and audio format the chances are the recorder discards anything but the primary audio and video streams as it will likely require a lot more complex processing to do anything else correctly (I believe subtitles on freeview are dealt with in the same was on a DVD as they're both MPEG2 based systems, and DVD subs are a slightly arcane nightmare*).

Depending on the model it may when recording without conversion be capturing most/all the entire mux.

For a little history/explanation and this is entirely from memory as someone who is interested in broadcast.
With Analogue TV it was relatively easy to capture the subs as they were part of the teletext/ceefax signal which was carried "in picture" using (from memory) the part of the signal that would have generated the top line of the picture, it was used because it could be fitted into the exiting transmission and reception gear without it being visible (most sets wouldn't be able to show the top line of the signal anyway due to the way the CRT tubes were made).
IIRC if you used a VRC to record you could get partial ceefax/subs from it, but not guaranteed (as the VCR may not have caught a good enough signal), if you used a good DVR or TV capture card that could accurately capture and store the entire analogue signal it could save the subtitle/ceefax information.
Basically like Nicam and a lot of other thngs subs on analogue were bodged (very successfully) to work inside the main exiting TV signals as "noise" that would be discarded or not picked up by sets that didn't have the right receivers.
Unfortunately MPEG2 is a lot more complex, and when you start to do things like compress it as some information is outside the picture/sound stream for a specific channel (but imposed over the top when you watch it) the recorders can't necessarily save it during any conversion or re-encoding. I believe some recorders get round this by basically recording the entire stream (about 40mb/s a good individual channel might use 8-10mb/s of that for AV).


*The specification for them was laid down in the days when the processing power and memory for anything else was expensive, which is why DVD subtitles are limited to 4 colours (realistically 2, as two colours have to be transparent iirc), and a limited character set based on what was needed for basic text in various languages in the 90's.

moneysaver

The recorder will convert the recording to a smaller file when set to anything other than off. This will result in the original recording being deleted after conversion.
I have the same model & just had a look, I have never recorded subtitles but you will need to have the conversion set to something other than off.


Moneysaver

SuzieSue

moneysaver wrote: »

The recorder will convert the recording to a smaller file when set to anything other than off. This will result in the original recording being deleted after conversion.
I have the same model & just had a look, I have never recorded subtitles but you will need to have the conversion set to something other than off.


Moneysaver

Thanks, what I didn't understand was why it couldn't record subtitles without converting it to a smaller file as it means that I have to manually change it from off every time.

Also, have you found a way of protecting recordings to stop them being deleted accidentally? The Sony recorder it replaced used to be able to do this.

windup

have you tried playing back any recordings, the subtitles are probably there - record something from the guide (bbc1/2), play it back, and press the subtitles button

you can only choose whether subtitles are saved if you do a conversion to a smaller file, if you do no conversion, the file is full size dr mode, and therefore the subtitles are embedded and saved automatically, so there is no choice.

ie Only when item other than “OFF” is selected in “Conv.” can you make a choice


after you have recorded something, highlight the recording, press option, edit, setup protection

downloading the manual in pdf format from the panasonic site may help you find your way around it faster

googler

All the Panasonics I have protection accessed through Direct Navigator, Edit menu, and Set Up Protection.

Alternatively, it's classified in the index (in the user manual) under P for protection, and Title within that index entry.

SuzieSue

windup wrote: »

have you tried playing back any recordings, the subtitles are probably there - record something from the guide (bbc1/2), play it back, and press the subtitles button

Thanks for this. I have just tried it and I can get the subtitles on normal recordings without setting up the recording to include subtitles.

paddyrg

Nilrem, nice references to the glorious analogue days . I wouldn't call NICAM, ceefax or even colour bodges per se, but beautiful bits of retrofitted engineering maintaining back compatibility ;-). You're absolutely correct about the vertical interval being used for metadata, NICAM was modulated onto a sub carrier frequency for the sound channel and had pseudorandom packet appearance so it looked like while noise to prevent it interfering with other channels, and color was bolted on by adjusting the signal phase during the regular scan lines.

Some truly genius engineering (OK, it was all a bit of a bodge, to maintain backward compatibility, but beautiful in it!)