Elite Management (Midlands) Ltd.

paige94_2

Hi all,

So surprise, surprise! My appeal was rejected. However, i have had a few issues with them. I sent my appeal of on 15th January, and didnt receive a reply from them until 28th January following a reminder email from myself. On this email it claimed i had already been sent the refusal of appeal on 15th january and a separate email with photographic evidence to prove that there is "clearly visible signage". However, i did not recieve either so requested them to be forwarded yet i have only received the refusal email no evidence. I have just sent them a lovely email letting them know how hypocritical it is of them to state on the "PCN" that no appeal will be handled without supporting evidence, when they cannot provide the evidence they claim to have!
I also wanted a bit of advice for my POPLA appeal, is it pretty much the same principles as the first appeal?
Thanks!

Coupon-mad

Nope. The points can be similar but there's more. It's a matter of 'throw the kitchen sink at it' as per post #3 of the NEWBIES thread POPLA examples. And you can add 'no keeper liability' because they won't have sent you a Notice to Keeper...will they??

So was the rejection email with POPLA code dated 15th Jan? If so you have to submit the POPLA appeal within two weeks now. But show us your draft appeal based NOT on what happened, but instead on the formulaic examples already here on the forum in the sticky thread. Including 'no keeper liability' due to the omission of any Notice to Keeper.

paige94_2

Okay, I'm just about to have a proper read of the thread you have suggested. But, no I have not as of yet received a NTK but aren't they still within their time frame as the parking ticket was given on 21/12/15? Can I still use this point?
I will comment again with any queries I have when I've tried to understand all of the information myself first from the newbies thread, regarding popla appeals. Thank you all so much for your help X

Coupon-mad

Yes - you use the point but you time the POPLA appeal well!

paige94_2

Right, my popla appeal deadline is edging closer and I'm still currently trying to get my head around it all using the templates in the NEWBIES thread. But I do have a few questions, so this may be a long post.
Firstly just to explain background, Windowscreen "PCN" was issued on 21/12/15 on pay and display car park where no ticket was purchased. (It's a multistorey car park, first two floors are free for ASDA; above that are apparently chargeable - though I didn't see any signs at the time). I appealed this, as the keeper of course, on the 12/01/16 22days after as per the newbies thread. With the appeal, I stated about transactions on the day at local businesses and as I didn't have a receipt for one transaction I said I would forward it to them. On 27/01/16 I sent the additional receipts, to which I got a reply claiming that my appeal had been rejected via email on 15/01/16 - which I had not received. I asked the sender to forward the appeal rejection email and also asked for proof that this was sent on the 15th. I received the rejection email, which stated that I would receive an additional email containing photographic evidence regarding their signage, which I also never received; not on the 15th (making it 2 emails that magically didn't make it into my inbox) nor when I emailed again requesting the evidence and proof the email was sent on the date claimed. Would this be any use in my popla appeal?
Also, I am struggling with knowing which points to use for the POPLA appeal. From the newbies thread, and all of your help, I'm aware that if no NTK that will help at popla. However, I'm a bit stuck. My POPLA deadline is this Friday 12th Feb, which will make it day 53 leaving them 3 days within their right to send one. Should I still use this as a point?
Just want to thank everyone for their help, to take time out of your own day to help others is amazing! Thank you.
I have no uni or work today, so planning on knuckling down and getting this sorted!

nigelbb

paige94 wrote: »

Also, I am struggling with knowing which points to use for the POPLA appeal. From the newbies thread, and all of your help, I'm aware that if no NTK that will help at popla. However, I'm a bit stuck. My POPLA deadline is this Friday 12th Feb, which will make it day 53 leaving them 3 days within their right to send one. Should I still use this as a point?

!!!!!! get that POPLA appeal in & don't miss the deadline. No NTK is an absolute guaranteed win at POPLA (see my recent case in the POPLA Decisions thread).

Have you double checked that the code is valid till Friday 12th February?. I'm unclear whether you received the POPLA code on 15th or 28th January. If the former then it will have expired. Put your code into the POPLA code checker on the Parking Cowboys website http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/ It would be a disaster if you miss the appeal window when you are guaranteed a win on 'No NTK'

paige94_2

Thank you so much for providing that website. This is the information I got..
Deadline information
Your appeal deadline is Thu Feb 11 2016
You have 2 day(s) remaining for your appeal to reach POPLA

Grounds for complaint
This code was generated 1 day(s) before the date of your appeal rejection letter. This means that you have not been given the full 28 days to appeal that you are entitled to under the British Parking Association's Code of Practice. Please consider making a complaint.

I know I'm really leaving it till the last minute, but I was so confident that i could beat it at first but the popla appeals are so daunting I'm struggling on where to start, despite all the fantastic help I've received and read.
I will now read your recent win, so can I still appeal on the grounds on no NTK, along with other points relevant to my case, despite them still being within the time frame?

Thanks again.

paige94_2

Ok having a good read of the BPA code of practice and Pofa 2012 as I plan my main points of appeal to be no NTK served, meaning no keeper liability and also the lack of signage. I will continue to research and get a draft posted on here later on today so you can advise me further.
Thanks!!

paige94_2

1. The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the POFA 2012 - no keeper liability

The Protection of Freedom Act, 2012 states that in order for the creditor to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle, they must have “given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8” (POFA, 2012).

The Notice to driver, as set out in paragraph 7 of the POFA 2012, must include both the “specified period of parking” as well as “specify the time the Notice is given”. As you can see in attachment 1, the Notice to driver only states the time the Notice was issued, rather than specify the period of parking which the penalty relates to.

As stated previously, a notice to keeper must follow a notice to driver. POFA 2012 states that;
“(4)The notice must be given by—
(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.”
As of today, Thursday 11th February 2016, I have not received any notice to keeper, meaning that Elite Management LTD are not complying with POFA 2012. The receipt and validity of a NTK is fundamental to establishing liability for a parking charge. As POPLA Matthew Shaw stated: ''Where a Notice is to be relied upon to establish liability...it must, as with any statutory provision, comply with the Act.'' No NTK was ever issued by Elite Midlands Management LTD, therefore it was improperly given and there is no grounds for keeper liability.


Only a small start but am i heading in the right direction?

Coupon-mad

Yep, nice one so far! That's fine as your first point and you don't need to worry about the timing if you do as advised. I would change the 'as of today' date to Friday 12th because that's when you will be submitting it (in fact you can submit POPLA appeals a tad late but I never recommend it just in case).

Submit the POPLA appeal on Friday evening - after working hours so POPLA don't actually do anything with it until Monday! - (under 'other' as a PDF of appeal points). The parking firm don't get sent your appeal wording and/or attachments until at least the next working day after POPLA handle what's come in over the weekend (dozens if not hundreds) and Elite simply won't have time to get a NTK posted and received by you within the 56 days.

You also need in your POPLA appeal:

- unclear signage and ambiguous information at the entrance, so no contract was formed. The driver entered the car park wanting to park on the bottom floor, no spaces so they ended up on the 3rd floor. Asda is attached to the car park and the driver knew that they had scrapped their pay and display scheme; for customers it is free and the entrance signs offered this. No other signs were seen to warn that the 3rd floor was under different restrictions nor were any terms to pay £100 clearly communicated. So no contract was ever accepted to pay this sum.

Some time later after shopping when a PCN had already been slapped on the windscreen, the driver looked around and found no other signs that could have been seen and read on the route driving in to get to the space where the car was parked. On entering the car park there was no sign seen warning about the onerous trap of a tariff applying on one floor but not another, nor was there any such term/sign communicated on the 3rd floor near the vehicle, apart from a sign on the back of a door the driver pushed to open, to access stairs to Asda. So the driver could not have been expected to see that hidden sign either - and they did not until it was too late. Even if seen, the sign on the back of the door for pedestrians could only be read some time later, after the car was parked whcih is too late for it to be incorporated into any parking contract - and in any case this was a hidden and unfair trap.

- no landowner authority (usual wording).

- breaches of the BPA Code of Practice, such as unclear signs (again) and failure to provide a POPLA code until you chased for it as no such email was received so you put Elite to strict proof that the 'ghost' emails they have invented from 15th January were actually sent.

- The £100 charge is a penalty and Elite have failed to disengage the penalty rule, nor have they shown that the charge is based upon a GPEOL which it would have to be since this is a simple financial contract revolving around a quantified, small tariff... (here, adapt the wording from salmosalaris as linked in the NEWBIES thread post #3 where he distinguishes P&D car parks from the Beavis case, in impressive detail.