Why do people resent buy-to-letters so much?

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

My apologies, I read your post literally and thought you were making the correlation.

Re: folk being annoyed with BTL



I'm just reporting what I see and that is this:

- Property is increasingly unaffordable to regular people in the areas I live
- People are dismayed by this
- People see BTL sector expanding and become aware through the media of how the are able to expand
- People become annoyed

You can choose to see it whichever way you want but my guess is we'll continue to see the sector regulated as public opinion shifts.

the reason prices are increasing is largely the increased demand due to the increase in population, which is largely due to the high level of immigration.
as supply doesn't keep up with people's wants, the price will continue to rise.

The reason that food is cheap is because we have a pretty free market in food stuffs, while we have an over regulated housing market.

The solution to a shortage of house building and a flawed regulatory system isn't more regulation but more house building.

You are probably correct is saying that regulation will increase because people are annoyed but this will see the prices and housing shortage continue.

Crashy_Time

CLAPTON wrote: »

the reason prices are increasing is largely the increased demand due to the increase in population, which is largely due to the high level of immigration.
as supply doesn't keep up with people's wants, the price will continue to rise.

The reason that food is cheap is because we have a pretty free market in food stuffs, while we have an over regulated housing market.

The solution to a shortage of house building and a flawed regulatory system isn't more regulation but more house building.

You are probably correct is saying that regulation will increase because people are annoyed but this will see the prices and housing shortage continue.

If there was true demand (Want + ability to pay) volumes (in regions outside London as well) would be increasing? I used to work in the building trade when "kit houses" became the in-thing, they literally go up overnight and can be liveable in a matter of days, if the PTB wanted to change tack on house building (if there was a real crisis in availability of units for example) they could do so overnight (as they seemed to do with their stance on BTL/2nd homes) They won`t do this IMO because the crash would be much much worse then than they want it to be. Instead they will regulate multiple houses out of landlords hands and back into the open market.
The boat has definitely sailed on BTL IMO. The public backlash against Europe will see to it that there are plenty of rentals left to go round as it is only the over leveraged that will be culled while sensible landlords who bought years ago just accept that they get that little bit less after tax in their pocket.

CLAPTON

Crashy_Time wrote: »

If there was true demand (Want + ability to pay) volumes (in regions outside London as well) would be increasing? I used to work in the building trade when "kit houses" became the in-thing, they literally go up overnight and can be liveable in a matter of days, if the PTB wanted to change tack on house building (if there was a real crisis in availability of units for example) they could do so overnight (as they seemed to do with their stance on BTL/2nd homes) They won`t do this IMO because the crash would be much much worse then than they want it to be. Instead they will regulate multiple houses out of landlords hands and back into the open market.
The boat has definitely sailed on BTL IMO. The public backlash against Europe will see to it that there are plenty of rentals left to go round as it is only the over leveraged that will be culled while sensible landlords who bought years ago just accept that they get that little bit less after tax in their pocket.

when were kit houses the in-thing?
how many were built?

BananaRepublic

westernpromise wrote: »

That whooooooosh was the sound of the point going completely over your head.

We can all sneer at other people's claims to adding value. The FD of a company is just an easy a target as a landlord.

And that is where we disagree. This thread is full of BTL landlords puffing up their chests, and extolling the benefits of their businesses., exaggerating what they do. I know that a competent FD adds considerable value to a company. However that is going off topic. I simply do not accept that BTL is a business. It is an investment, most just buy a flat or house, do some work, buy some white goods, and let it. In that case they add little value. And don't say that is not true, I know plenty of people who do that. It is common among IT contractors, who have a lot of free cash and look for investments.

There is an argument that the few who do substantial work to delapidated properties are not competing with OO because most cannot afford a deposit and renovation costs, then again this is supposition on my part. I bought a run down house, completely redecorated and now live in it.

BananaRepublic

Crashy_Time wrote: »

If there was true demand (Want + ability to pay) volumes (in regions outside London as well) would be increasing? I used to work in the building trade when "kit houses" became the in-thing, they literally go up overnight and can be liveable in a matter of days, if the PTB wanted to change tack on house building (if there was a real crisis in availability of units for example) they could do so overnight (as they seemed to do with their stance on BTL/2nd homes) They won`t do this IMO because the crash would be much much worse then than they want it to be. Instead they will regulate multiple houses out of landlords hands and back into the open market.
The boat has definitely sailed on BTL IMO. The public backlash against Europe will see to it that there are plenty of rentals left to go round as it is only the over leveraged that will be culled while sensible landlords who bought years ago just accept that they get that little bit less after tax in their pocket.

Oh there is huge demand. I live in a village and there is buildng left right and centre. A pub closed and half the car park became an estate. A Peugeot garage closed, up popped an estate. Lots of houses here have huge gardens so they are demolished and up pops an estate. Two detached houses have just gone up in someones back garden. If you see mounds in your gaden here, it's most likely builders not moles.

The huge problem is a shortage of land with PP. And in some areas locals cannot compete with second home owners who know the house is a holiday home and an investment.

cells

BananaRepublic wrote: »

And that is where we disagree. This thread is full of BTL landlords puffing up their chests, and extolling the benefits of their businesses., exaggerating what they do. I know that a competent FD adds considerable value to a company. However that is going off topic. I simply do not accept that BTL is a business. It is an investment, most just buy a flat or house, do some work, buy some white goods, and let it. In that case they add little value. And don't say that is not true, I know plenty of people who do that. It is common among IT contractors, who have a lot of free cash and look for investments.

There is an argument that the few who do substantial work to delapidated properties are not competing with OO because most cannot afford a deposit and renovation costs, then again this is supposition on my part. I bought a run down house, completely redecorated and now live in it.

BTL exists in every town and city in England yet some, like Stoke-On-Trent are extremely cheap with average price for a terrace ~2 x male income

So if BTL is the cause of silly prices why is it not the cause of silly prices in places like Stoke-On-Trent and about half the rest of the country?

cells

Landlords do nothing, they just collect the rent....

One problem with the BTL do nothing folk is that they probably try to see 1 hours work as valued at £7 per hour or even £0 when in business most contractors are paid closer to £500 per day

Today Ive spent pretty much all day going through paperwork for multiple properties. What do you think the value/cost of that work is? £0? £500? Something in between?

BananaRepublic

cells wrote: »

BTL exists in every town and city in England yet some, like Stoke-On-Trent are extremely cheap with average price for a terrace ~2 x male income

So if BTL is the cause of silly prices why is it not the cause of silly prices in places like Stoke-On-Trent and about half the rest of the country?

Look at where high prices are and the closer to London the higher the prices. Near a station that is commutable to London prices can be very high. The money is in London. In the sticks pay is lower. There is demand, but local people can't pay so much. Look at Cornwall, locals are often priced out by second home owners who think houses are cheap.

In other words, non occupying owners are pushing prices to silly levels as far as locals on local wages are concerned. I suspect the main shortage is in the south east which is one of the most densely populated areas in Europe.

BananaRepublic

cells wrote: »

Landlords do nothing, they just collect the rent....

One problem with the BTL do nothing folk is that they probably try to see 1 hours work as valued at £7 per hour or even £0 when in business most contractors are paid closer to £500 per day

Today Ive spent pretty much all day going through paperwork for multiple properties. What do you think the value/cost of that work is? £0? £500? Something in between?

Yet again you phrase this as a business, and then refer to a daily rate of £500. No wonder BTL landlords can price others out of the market with that sort of financial muscle. Frankly your post makes you sound very greedy, sorry if that sounds rude. That impression of greed seems to permeate this thread.

By the way I've spent most of this week going through the paperwork for my investments, checking gains, moving some around. What do you think the value of that work is? Shall I pretend this is a business?

Thrugelmir

BananaRepublic wrote: »

I simply do not accept that BTL is a business. It is an investment, most just buy a flat or house, do some work, buy some white goods, and let it.

BTL is a business. In fact many people seem to view it as an one-way investment. Leverage up and cash in without doing anything. A business can make a trading loss as well a profit. You are assuming that it is let.