Secure-A-Space, 5 PCN's in 17 days in allocated parking space.

BiscuitMuncher

Hello All,

My first thread here. I’ve spent the past couple of nights researching this forum and PePiPoo and I have searched for similar stories to mine. I’ve found lots of useful info but maybe regular posters can comment and advise on next action to take. So far I have not found a post similar so I hope any answers here can also help a future Forum member who finds him/herself in the same situation.

I have received five PCN’s in 17 days from Secure-A-Space for parking in my rented apartment allocated space in a gated residential compound despite trying to obtain a parking permit from the Management Company since the issue of the first PCN. (please refer to timeline below)

My Tenancy Agreement makes no mention of a parking permit being required, only that I may park in the apartment’s allocated space, must keep it clean and not park an untaxed vehicle. I was unaware of the necessity for a permit (there are signs but they look like warnings against non-resident parking or use of other bays, small print at the bottom) and my landlord has stated he was also unaware of the necessity for a permit.

I have had my appeals against PCN#1 and #2 rejected by S-a-S (surprisingly), any advice on next step? Ignore or appeal to POPLA?

Should I follow appeal procedure on PCN #3, #4 & #5 or “go militant” on those too? I found this expression on one of the forums but can’t for the life of me find it again whilst typing this. Basically tell S-a-S where to go.

After finally receiving the permit today I have told the Management Company I expect them to arrange cancellation of all PCN’s issued.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Here is a timeline version of events for easy reading:

Day 1 - PCN #1 issued @ 6:30. The car was purchased and parked in allocated parking bay 4 days previously.

Day 2 - Found PCN #1 on windscreen. Asked concierge how to obtain permit.

Day 4 - Emailed Management Company (MC) requesting permit. Their reply “ask landlord for permit”
Emailed landlord requesting permit. His reply “I didn’t realise you needed a permit, there is an allocated bay you can park in” but said he would contact MC to obtain one.

Day 5 - Appealed against PCN #1 to Secure-A-Space (S-a-S).

Day 6 - PCN #2 issued @ 12:00
Emailed MC and informed them that landlord did not know permit was required, also told them PCN #2 received despite appeal against PCN #1.
Appealed against PCN #2 to Secure-A-Space.

Day 7 - Email from landlord repeating he didn’t realise a permit was required. Stated 2 sets of previous tenants had cars and he hadn’t had to get a permit for them. Landlord confirmed he has emailed MC and hadn’t heard back from them so had emailed them a second time and will forward permit as soon as he gets it.

Day 9 - PCN #1 & PCN #2 appeals rejected with the same standard rejection letter.
Landlord tells me he has paid for a permit and asked MC to post it to me. He attaches copy of email confirming transfer of funds to MC for permit.
Emailed MC and told them to tell S-a-S that permit has been paid for as I do not want anymore PCN’s.

Day 10 - MC informed me permit is in post to landlord.

Day 14 - PCN #3 issued @ 12:30

Day 16 - PCN #4 issued @ 23:00
I email landlord to state this situation is getting out of hand.
Landlord emails MC to ask confirmation of payment, post permit to tenant and arrange for S-a-S to rescind tickets received.
I join this forum.

Day 19 - Emailed MC to state permit still not received and informed that from my perspective I had done as much as possible to obtain a permit.
Terse email from MC saying “don’t park in bay until you receive the permit”. Wait one more day for post and MC representative will hand deliver if necessary following day.

Day 20 - Email from MC asking if permit received and “don’t park in bay until you receive the permit” again. MC states they “can’t wipe tickets”.
I email MC stating permit still not received. Ask them to deliver it in person the following day and inform S-a-S permit is paid for and will be issued. I enclose screenshot of tenancy agreement which states that we have an allocated parking space and there is no mention of a permit being required. I state we will continue to park in allotted space as per TA, that we have an access key fob for the compound and we are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property as per TA.
No reply from MC to this.

Day 17 - PCN #5 issued @ 1:30 (yes, 1:30am)
Permit received in post.
Emailed MC thanking them for permit but complained about receiving another PCN at 1:00am. Also re-iterated that I expect all PCN’s to be cancelled. No reply from MC so far.

Thanks for reading,

BiscuitMuncher

Umkomaas

You need to appeal every ticket as a separate entity. You can use the same appeal for the initial and second (POPLA) stage appeal - just change the PCN number and dates.

POPLA can kill each one off - totally. 'Go militant' (whatever that means) and ignore the tickets, or telling SaS 'where to go' will place you in a situation where they have 6 years in which to pursue you legally for the charges they are claiming. And with 5 tickets in the mix, you are starting to become an attractive proposition for a court claim to be winging its way to you.

Follow the POPLA route and cost them £27 for every appeal and if ticketing continues, you can rack up a hefty bill for them, just by copying and pasting your successful appeal each time.

They will soon realise you are unbeatable and will quickly tell their agent that under no circumstances should your car be further ticketed.

Fruitcake

Your case is no different to all the others we see here.


Have a read of the POPLA decisions thread and find one that is similar to your case then edit it to suit. Search for own space ...

Coupon-mad

'Go militant' comes from the MSE article which is why I worried the OP might be planning on using the wrong appeal template. The one in the MSE guide article is useless and actually could cause people to lose appeals and lose money, which is what I said to MSE Marcel when he was re-writing it last time.

For some reason, MSE article writers could not understand why it's best to write as registered keeper and not name the driver; they asked me a couple of times, then ignored me! So we still have a useless MSE guide which gives a template telling people to talk about what happened AND give away who parked.

BiscuitMuncher

Thanks for the replies and I am starting to read through the POPLA decisions thread.

Hypothetical question no. 1 - if the 3 digit issuing operator code didn't match the PPC who issued the PCN would that be classed as fraud? (after checking code using POPLA code checker)

Hypothetical question no. 2 - If the PPC put insufficient postage on any correspondence such that the Royal Mail would not deliver and request payment from recipient, is recipient within his/her rights not to collect the item and have the Royal Mail return to sender?

Fruitcake

BiscuitMuncher wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and I am starting to read through the POPLA decisions thread.

Hypothetical question no. 1 - if the 3 digit issuing operator code didn't match the PPC who issued the PCN would that be classed as fraud? (after checking code using POPLA code checker)

Hypothetical question no. 2 - If the PPC put insufficient postage on any correspondence such that the Royal Mail would not deliver and request payment from recipient, is recipient within his/her rights not to collect the item and have the Royal Mail return to sender?

2) Yes. This is the same as us advising people not to send appeals by recorded delivery as it the PPC can refuse to sign for it thus providing proof that it hasn't ben delivered. Your question is a very unlikely scenario though.

Umkomaas

Hypothetical question no. 1 - if the 3 digit issuing operator code didn't match the PPC who issued the PCN would that be classed as fraud? (after checking code using POPLA code checker)

As well as being a hypothetical, it seems to have come completely out of left-field. Some small time PPCs use a back office provider (Ranger Services) which can also handle appeals on their behalf.

BiscuitMuncher

I suppose my hypothetical points above are just wishful thinking.

I have now drafted my POPLA appeal for the first PCN based on the "permit parking" example mentioned in the main Appeal thread.

This appeal must be submitted by 05.01.16 but is there any reason why it can't be submitted now (I'll post a draft for comments before submission).

I have numerous emails to the Management Company on this matter, can I attach these as supporting evidence?
I have written these on behalf of the RK.

Thanks in advance,

BiscuitMuncher

Umkomaas

Timing of the initial appeal submission is critical. If received by the PPC shortly before they would normally apply to the DVLA for keeper details probably means they won't request the details from the DVLA,(because they think they've been handed them on a plate) - but failing to do this means they also fail one of the requirements of PoFA, so keeper liability cannot be invoked. They probably also won't send a NtK, another PoFA fail, so two reasons why keeper liability cannot be invoked.

If the appeal can be sent electronically (check on the windscreen ticket how the PPC wants it) send it about day 25; if by snail mail, around day 22 with free certificate of posting from the PO). For both these timings, later rather than sooner - provided you don't miss the PPC appeal deadline date - is better. There's definitely no helpful circumstances (other than a hire/lease car) in which an early appeal should be made.

Following the receipt of your POPLA code you also have another timing window to work within - more nearer the time.

Please confirm you've used, word-for-word (no adjustments), the template appeal from the newbies sticky. I always get a bit edgy when posters say 'written based on......', which inevitably means, their version! So easy to screw up at this stage.

I'm not sure what you're really expecting from your initial appeal? If it's a cancellation, then be prepared to be disappointed. Sending a PPC anything (other than receipts for shopping in a ParkingEye case) is pretty futile - they'll have no impact. Save anything like that for POPLA.

BiscuitMuncher

@Umkomaas, sorry for the confusion.. I have already got a POPLA code for PCN's 1 & 2 and my post above refers to the POPLA appeal for PCN 1. This POPLA appeal is based on the quoted example but obviously details changed to suit my case.

I have worked out the dates (21 days after issue as per the Newbies thread) for appeal to the PPC for PCN's 3, 4 & 5 to get the POPLA code for these. I shall use the template in the Newbies section for these.

I couldn't find any ideal timing for the POPLA appeal submission.

Umkomaas

For your POPLA appeal, if your appeal includes no keeper liability because the PPC has failed to deliver a compliant NtK then you have to try to extend the period from the day after the parking incident (day 1) to after the final day (56) by which they could deliver a compliant NtK.

So if your POPLA deadline date is beyond day 56 of your parking incident, then delay in submitting it (and alerting the PPC to the no NtK issue, as they will have sight of your appeal) is tactically advantageous - provided you don't miss the absolute POPLA deadline by pushing the envelope too far.

Obviously as you have more POPLA appeals at various stages, you'll need to manage the dates of each appeal carefully.

HTH