New FIT rate from Feb

Cardew

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5380341

Cardew

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/486082/FITs_Review_Govt__response_Final.pdf

MFW_ASAP

Looks like an end to the solar FIT gravy train.

nobby1963

For anyone viewing this thread now it seems that MFW's image is now missing from his previous post and my comment below was in response to his post including the 'fat pig banker smoking a cigar ' image.



WOW and you have got the brass neck to criticise some on here for getting personal !

What a total Troll you obviously are.

Nobby xx

ajbell

My gravy train ends in 2035.

Seriously though what is your problem?.

kevin6666

It had to happen but what's a shame is how the scheme was run in the first 2 years or so. FIT could have created a long term sustainable PV (and other tech) industry over 20 years if it hadn't been for the daft tariffs early locked in for 25 years.

Instead it's boom and bust with the wealthy benefitting and the poor not. Rent a roof man made his investment and can live the next 20 years as a meter reader. White van man took the boom & bust approach. And Dr & Dr Jones can be happy poor Joe Bloggs is helping them pay for their next trip to the Maldives.

What a shambles and no one will be held accountable as per.

pinnks

Some interesting thoughts. I first considered PV about 6 weeks before the first drastic cut in FIT. At that time I was working on the basis that I would shell out the best part of £20,000 for 4kWp. I would have gone ahead but for the change and uncertainty which from memory was a drop from 42p to 22p or similar.

A year later a friend proudly demonstrated his shiny ne system and told me he had shelled out a mere £6,500 on a split aspect system. This rekindled my interest.

During the quote process a couple of firms told me that the price of panels had halved a month or so after the FIT change and how subsidies had clearly been driving behaviour. The likely return on investment (and no need please for Cardew to chip in with his views on that please as the quotes were on the same basis) was the same. I paid about the same as my friend including an immerSUN and various updates to my incoming supply from the meter.

So, what will happen to prices and the industry in 2016? Who knows as there is a limit to which prices can fall as labour costs are less flexible but I would predict downward pressure on panel etc prices.

Cardew

pinnks wrote: »

I first considered PV about 6 weeks before the first drastic cut in FIT. At that time I was working on the basis that I would shell out the best part of £20,000 for 4kWp.

A year later a friend proudly demonstrated his shiny ne system and told me he had shelled out a mere £6,500 on a split aspect system. This rekindled my interest.

I paid about the same as my friend including an immerSUN and various updates to my incoming supply from the meter.

So, what will happen to prices and the industry in 2016? Who knows as there is a limit to which prices can fall as labour costs are less flexible but I would predict downward pressure on panel etc prices.

A 4kWp system can be obtained now for £4,500 upwards.

It seems that a 250w panel can be purchased for around £120(no doubt less if bought in bulk)

http://www.buypvdirect.co.uk/PV_Panels

So the cost of 16 panels will be around £2,000 thus leaving £2,500 for installation costs(scaffolding/inverter/labour/profit etc)

I first considered PV about 6 weeks before the first drastic cut in FIT

That drastic cut was 31 October 2011 so your quote of £20,000 would be Sept 2011

iirc in 2010 the cost of a 250w panel was around £300. So 16 panels would cost £4,800. I haven't got a figure for Sept 2011 but I believe it was considerably less.*

Even at £4,800 it means over £15,000 was for installation costs(scaffolding/inverter/labour/profit etc).

As kevin666 so aptly states above:

White van man took the boom & bust approach

* Does anyone have more accurate figures for panel costs?

tunnel

Cardew wrote: »

That drastic cut was 31 October 2011

No it wasn't!

Try the original date of 12/12/11 which was then contested and changed to 3/3/12

For somebody that tirelessly carps on about the FiT and how "unfair" it is I'd have thought even you would at least post the correct dates

Martyn1981

pinnks wrote: »

Some interesting thoughts. I first considered PV about 6 weeks before the first drastic cut in FIT. At that time I was working on the basis that I would shell out the best part of £20,000 for 4kWp. I would have gone ahead but for the change and uncertainty which from memory was a drop from 42p to 22p or similar.

A year later a friend proudly demonstrated his shiny ne system and told me he had shelled out a mere £6,500 on a split aspect system. This rekindled my interest.

During the quote process a couple of firms told me that the price of panels had halved a month or so after the FIT change and how subsidies had clearly been driving behaviour.

Hiya pinnks, just to be clear, whilst there are people out there claiming costs fell after the FiT reductions, the reality is the opposite.

(All based on 4kWp) - Prices were around £16k to £20k when the FiT was launched in 2010. By the summer of 2011 they were down to £12k and the FiT needed revising fast.

Remember, the FiT always had a built in degression, it's just that prices fell faster than expected.

By late 2011 prices were down to £10k and still falling, and the government acted (panicked).

When the FiT was halved to 21p in Mch 2012 prices were around £8k.

Prices continued to fall, and by summer 2012 were around £7k, and the FiT was dropped to 16p and reduced from 25yrs to 20yrs. Also the current degression programme was launched, linking FiT reductions to MWp of installs.

Prices levelled off at £6k for a while with the EU/China MIP, but then started to fall again in late 2014.

Once again the return is too generous as the price has fallen faster than the FiT degression. Hence the need for this recent government intervention.

I'm absolutely sure that there is slack in the system, however it's important to note that all of the major FiT reductions have been driven by falling costs, not the other way round.

I suspect the subsidy mechanism whereby ROI is linked to price, rather than a straight grant, which typically pushes prices up (by an equal amount) is the reason why this subsidy, unlike most others, has been so successful.

[All price examples can be varied by referring back to older discussions on MSE. They are not the very best prices, at any given time, rather the better end, towards which people were pointed by MSE PV'ers.]

Mart.

Cardew

tunnel wrote: »

No it wasn't!

Try the original date of 12/12/11 which was then contested and changed to 3/3/12

For somebody that tirelessly carps on about the FiT and how "unfair" it is I'd have thought even you would at least post the correct dates

What a stickler for accuracy! - and how petty! Do you feel this most valuable post of yours alters the point being made about profit margins?

pinnks posted:

I first considered PV about 6 weeks before the first drastic cut in FIT

On 31 October 2011 a second review of the Feed in Tariffs for low carbon electricity generation was announced

Now it may well be that the 6 weeks pinnks referred to was 6 weeks before the announcement(i.e. mid Sept) or intended implementation (first week Oct)

What an important point of great relevance you have made;

Surely even you can do better than that!