Conservatory Problems

laalaa

Hi,

Haven't been on the boards for years but it was the first place I thought of when this issue cropped up.

Parents had conservatory built in 2004, multiple problems with it over the years detailed here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2496445

Sadly my parents never did take any action back when I posted previous thread but not have a further problem which is sadly a big one.

Over past 2days my parents garden has been flooded quite badly due to an apparent drainage problem. Plumber couldn't find any issues inside the house & advised a CCTV survey from Dynorod. This took place today & it seems that conservatory builders have bodged the drainage. We've looked out the plans for conservatory & drain was to be rerouted but it seems it hasn't. Conservatory floor needs to be lifted & need to dig down to get access to pipes.

Do we have any comeback with company given the time elapsed? Company say nothing to do with them, out of warranty etc.

Happy to give more info if needed.

TIA

MisterBaxter

The defects period is usually 6 years for general contracts or 12 years for sealed contracts (not generally applicable for domestic contracts).

If the issue had been reported in that 6 year period and had not been addressed satisfactorily by the contractor then there may have been some comeback but 11 years on if the issue wasn't reported to the contractor then I don't see any recourse being available.

teneighty

MisterBaxter wrote: »

The defects period is usually 6 years for general contracts or 12 years for sealed contracts (not generally applicable for domestic contracts).

If the issue had been reported in that 6 year period and had not been addressed satisfactorily by the contractor then there may have been some comeback but 11 years on if the issue wasn't reported to the contractor then I don't see any recourse being available.

I would offer Latent Defects as a possible remedy.

The six years does not start until you could have reasonably identified the defect. I would say the recent flooding and CCTV survey revealing the drain issue is when the clock starts.

Having said that Conservatory Installers are notoriously difficult to pin down and reading the original thread they sound like cowboys so good luck trying to chase them. Probably better just to cut your losses and re-route the drains around the outside of the conservatory. Get some quotes from local general builders not Dyno-rod type companies.

MisterBaxter

teneighty wrote: »

I would offer Latent Defects as a possible remedy.

The six years does not start until you could have reasonably identified the defect. I would say the recent flooding and CCTV survey revealing the drain issue is when the clock starts.

Having said that Conservatory Installers are notoriously difficult to pin down and reading the original thread they sound like cowboys so good luck trying to chase them. Probably better just to cut your losses and re-route the drains around the outside of the conservatory. Get some quotes from local general builders not Dyno-rod type companies.

I would have said the same but the OP did say that they had spotted numerous issues at the outset and had never taken the installer to task; also it seemed odd to me that given the weather patterns we have had in recent years that it has taken 11 years for a latent defect of this nature to manifest. I think that in Court it may be difficult to prove that it wasn't reasonable to have seen the defect sooner.

It also wasn't clear if the building works had damaged the drains (not sure how it would take 11 years to spot) or if the conservatory had simply been built over the drain making a non-related repair difficult to effect.

I honestly think that the cost and effort involved in pursuing a claim wouldn't be worthwhile.

Furts

One needs to sit down and do a careful cost-benefit analysis. A conservatory is a poor quality, temporary, cheap, short life substitute for a proper extension. The lifespan is debatable - ten years is reasonable, but many conservatories at 20 years old are leaking, distorting, sealed units are failing, polycarbonate roofs have failed, heat efficiency has been superseded and so on.

This conservatory is 11 years old and has been defective since it was built.

People casually toss around the expression "divert drains" but often this can be expensive, or not technically possible. But if the drain is broken and a repair is required then it may mean removing the conservatory, or at least digging up the floor.

Hence OP needs accurate advice on the feasibility of drainage remedial works and the associated costs. Having got this the decision should be made regarding demolition of the conservatory and starting again with a satisfactory proposal.

I have posted before, but I got a new conservatory done for a family member. This was demolition of the existing asbestos conservatory then proper foundations, proper slab, extensive insulation, dwarf walls, electrics, plastering, decorating, landscaping all with a budget of £9000. The conservatory size was around 5m by 2.5 m. The price could have been lower, but all foundations were dug by hand, all concrete barrowed in, access was difficult, and I did not shop around greatly for prices.

Equally my sunroom is bigger than this and built to a high standard. This cost under £10000. This has Buildings Regulations and is built and insulated for all year round use.

teneighty

I disagree, diverting drains is usually quite simple and inexpensive.

It is a groundworker/labourer job no more than £150 per day plus materials which are quite inexpensive. With modern push fit plastic pipe it is also well within the scope of a competent DIYer.

Furts

teneighty wrote: »

I disagree, diverting drains is usually quite simple and inexpensive.

It is a groundworker/labourer job no more than £150 per day plus materials which are quite inexpensive. With modern push fit plastic pipe it is also well within the scope of a competent DIYer.

Drains flow by gravity. All drains have a range of gradients in which to work. All drains will have a designed gradient.

To divert a drain requires a point into which to cut down, a manhole should be built, then a point to connect back into and again a manhole. Diverting increases the distance and this knocks on with the gradient.

The land may not be available and the connection points could be in a neighbours garden.

As if this is not enough, if it is an Adopted Drain then matters can become far more complex. There are numerous posts on the Forum about Build Over Agreements and problems diverting drains.

Finally all domestic drains are within the scope of the Buildings Regulations. One should not be bunging a groundworker £150 and saying bodge it up.

Le_Kirk

Original post stated that "the builders have bodged the drainage" but does not state what the CCTV actually found. If the drain has worked for 11 years without being rerouted, it must have been effective and efficient. Therefore we need to know exactly what the CCTV report shows. 1. Has the drain collapsed? 2. Is it blocked? 3. Has one of the joints slipped? It may be that the floor of the conservatory will have to be dug up but the CCTV report should at least tell you where. If it is 2, then maybe a simple rodding will suffice. If that doesn't work rod the original builders - sarcasm alert

teneighty

Who said anything about a bodge. A groundworker on £150 a day should provide a top notch job.

As for building a new manhole, jeez, when was the last time you did any drain work? Its all plastic access chambers now and you cut into the existing drain using flexible slip collars.

From OP's post it sounds like the surface water drains and diverting around a conservatory, not Wembley Stadium. Obviously it has to be investigated but my point was it is usually easier and cheaper than people think. And in this case possibly better than getting involved in a long and expensive legal battle with the dodgey conservatory installers.

laalaa

Sorry, I'll give a bit more info on this.

Aside from all other issues, which we constantly went back & forth with & various repairs were done, there is now some blockage in the drain leaving the kitchen. When the CCTV people came out they couldn't get right through the pipe as they seem to be hitting something hard either metal or plastic. They questioned why we didn't have the drains re-routed when conservatory built & asked to see the plans. On the plans, it specifically lists drain re-routing as being part of the quote.

My parents contacted the company who had initially said nothing to do with them & to contact the council, as building control signed it off? Clearly nothing to do with building control as they can't see under the conservatory Today, a manager from company has called back asking for the report from Dynorod (which states drains haven't been rerouted properly & a copy of the plans where it lists this as to be done. They are going to get back to us.

The garden has had terrible drainage since conservatory built, which was highlighted & we were told it was just one of those things. It's only now that there is a blockage that we've realised we can't actually get access without lifting up the floor of conservatory.

Furts

laalaa wrote: »

Sorry, I'll give a bit more info on this.

Aside from all other issues, which we constantly went back & forth with & various repairs were done, there is now some blockage in the drain leaving the kitchen. When the CCTV people came out they couldn't get right through the pipe as they seem to be hitting something hard either metal or plastic. They questioned why we didn't have the drains re-routed when conservatory built & asked to see the plans. On the plans, it specifically lists drain re-routing as being part of the quote.

My parents contacted the company who had initially said nothing to do with them & to contact the council, as building control signed it off? Clearly nothing to do with building control as they can't see under the conservatory Today, a manager from company has called back asking for the report from Dynorod (which states drains haven't been rerouted properly & a copy of the plans where it lists this as to be done. They are going to get back to us.

The garden has had terrible drainage since conservatory built, which was highlighted & we were told it was just one of those things. It's only now that there is a blockage that we've realised we can't actually get access without lifting up the floor of conservatory.

For decades the construction industry regarded Dynorod as a joke. Bright red vans, driven by monkeys, shooting round the country searching out private householders who were willing to be ripped off and fed copious BS. The construction industry used these idiots as a company of last resort when a competent company was not available

I say this to give a background on domestic CCTV and domestic jetting of drains.

Why have Dynorod not identified the nature of the blockage? Why haven't they put a camera up to identify this issue? Why haven't they proposed jetting to remove it? Then if Dynorod are being helpful, the proposals will need careful scrutiny to ensure they are not taking you for a ride.

The wet garden should be investigated. For example you may have downpipes connected into the topsoil. This may sound ridiculous but I have seen many conservatories where this bodge has been done. So this prompts the question...exactly what surface water drainage exists from the home and from the conservatory? And where does it run to?