DWP consultation on pip daily living URGENT

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Disability Money Matters
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smudge75smudge75 Forumite
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edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Disability Money Matters
Consultation on aids and
appliances and the daily
living component of
Personal Independence
Payment

DWP are trying to get this through the system in the hope no one will notice but if it gets through it will effect all sick and disabled people as majority use aids and appliances.
Please send replys to the link below stating why this shouldn't go ahead also send letters to your MP's explaining your outrage.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/484217/pip-consultation-on-aids-and-appliances.pdf

Replies

  • Newly_retiredNewly_retired Forumite
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    I am interested in who would be affected by this, if it comes in. What sort of conditions? Bear in mind that if claimants can score points for other reasons, it is not proposed that their claim would be affected.
  • MupetteMupette Forumite
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    In addition, judicial decisions have broadened the scope of what is considered to be an aid or
    appliance. For example, recent judgments have found that a bed or chair could be considered
    an aid or appliance if an individual is unable to dress standing up, as could a smoke alarm if a
    person with a hearing impairment used it to help them to cook a meal safely
    . This means that
    the definition of aids and appliances includes articles that are unlikely to be a reliable indicator
    of extra costs, as they are widely available and commonly used irrespective of the level of need



    :eek: dinner is burnt now dear
    GNU
    Terry Pratchett
    ((((Ripples))))
  • edited 13 December 2015 at 5:22PM
    A_Flock_Of_SheepA_Flock_Of_Sheep Forumite
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    edited 13 December 2015 at 5:22PM
    Seems a bit mad because in the abense of the aids the person would then need a person to do the smoke detecting. The DWP can't have the cake and eat it. It must either be - your smoke detector is an aid sir to help you cook safely or we are not even going to consider your smoke alarm so basically not considering it what do we consider? You need another person...

    The whole concept is as barking as it is illogical and is merely a knee jerk reaction to the fact that the stupid tories have been blown out of the water over tax credits and have been booted out of tribunals over PIP and the tail has fallen off their cunning plan to reduce the DLA bill because - shock horror - more people are entitled to PIP than they thought.

    Surely a deaf person scores points in the communication part of the PIP form. I think considering a bed and a chair to dress and perhaps the smoke alarm to cook is perhaps not acting fully in the spirit of PIP but aids such as a perching stool, can openiners, long handles shoe horns do give a good indication of functional impairment. If people are scoring points in many descriptors for the ue of "sensible" aids then they should be left alone.
  • edited 13 December 2015 at 10:21PM
    A_Flock_Of_SheepA_Flock_Of_Sheep Forumite
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    edited 13 December 2015 at 10:21PM
    I can see how this will pan out. Clever DWP using the tribunal rulings to shoot people who use the tribunal in the foot.

    So they create a new level of benefit so the DWP will just use the broadened concept of aids to deny people the normal (useful) level of benefit. Who would bother to even apply for the possibility of a voucher based lump sum that leads to nothing on top. I know I wouldn't even waste the ink in my biro for it. The claimant goes to a tribunal and says I don' agree yet the tribunal have already agreed that the aids are great because there are rulings already. You don't need help from a person you can sit on the bed to dress the DWP are quite correct.

    In an extreme case take a blind person. There are aids that help a blind person determine the colour of clothing. So they can get some vouchers for one of those gizmos.

    Very clever on the DWP. Using tribunal results, adjusting the PIP goalposts so those who have rocked the boat and chucked their toys out of the pram running off to tribunals because they are not entitled to PIP but were entitled to DLA have now wrecked it for everyone.

    So if this goes ahead no matter how you justify you need another person the DWP can simply come up with cheap aid to remove the human need. I suspect even smart phones with certain apps prompting people to do something will fall under this. The only descriptor I can see where it is hard to contrive an aid is the need for social support either through prompting or more.

    Ironically the person who rocked the boat about planing and following journeys at Upper Tribunal didn't get PIP anyway and now we have two confliciting rulings on that. The DWP will soon get that one clarified and if it goes their way it will exclude anyone with mental health problems Lower Mobility unless they are housebound.

    So doubtless as more tribunal results emerge the goalposts witll be adjusted even more with further "consultations".
  • They'll probably alter the mobility component of PIP next. I expect the walking distance lowered to say 5m.
  • MupetteMupette Forumite
    4.6K Posts
    Imagine you use the smoke alarm as an aid for cooking, wonders how long before you get a noise abatement slapped on you for upsetting the neighbours
    GNU
    Terry Pratchett
    ((((Ripples))))
  • edited 14 December 2015 at 8:21AM
    A_Flock_Of_SheepA_Flock_Of_Sheep Forumite
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    edited 14 December 2015 at 8:21AM
    They are leaving physical mobility at the moment. It is pretty tough to get presently.

    The consultation document focuses on activities: preparing food, dressing, bathing, toileting where people are scoring 8 points but cite aids that cost as little as £1 or are free or improvised such as a bed already in situ or a sink to lean on. So basically if the consultation goes ahead if you score your 8 points just on those descriptors by using aids you won't get PIP as it is administered now unless there is human intervention in those tasks. DWP claim it wipes 35% of claimants off the books.

    The other descriptors are harder to score from on communicating and mixing with others, planning money for those in the examples given in the document. The descriptors are more narrowed and focused on a different demographic. Mental health, learning difficultie, autism.

    They will also be focusing on planning and following journeys after someone with PTSD ended up at the higher tribunal moaning that they should get 10 points for that and not 4 but they were dismissed. Then a few days later another judge ruled in the opposite direction so this areas is now full of confusion.

    The only people we have to thank for this potential narrowing of benefit due to the unreasonable concept of aids are the "cop a strop" court room jockeys thinking they will be entitled to PIP after stomping off to tribunal. Now it has backfired on them and everyone else. I can sympathise with the DWP in some ways. Their view is where do you draw the line with regards to this so the PIP bill remains sustainable? Interestingly the consultation document states that PIP is not an income replacement benefit (like ESA, JSA) and many lose site of this concept seeing it as part of the overall household income and expenditure.
  • M00minMamaM00minMama Forumite
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    I am truly frustrated that so many people have fought for the right for members of the disabled community to manage their own money, life affecting decisions and quality of life to have a government try and send us back to the 1970's.

    Remember when it was decided for us that Motability cars should be single seat, blue three wheelers, regardless of users needs?

    Remember when it was decided for us that the best thing for students with disabilities Was to go to special schools together so they wouldn't disrupt 'normal' schools?

    Remember the days when people with mental health issues were all locked up out of sight 'for their own good'?

    Remember when people with disabilities could be paid less than others? (errr 2015 according to certain Tory members!)

    Aids are not the only expenses incurred by the Disabled, examples of others not specifically identified under PIP are additional heating, special foods, specialised personal care products, carers, cleaners, gardeners, dog walkers, help with DIY, help with shopping or costs for home delivery services.

    How long before we issue food stamps and ration books instead of benefits ' to make sure where it's going'?
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