Are the Torys real Torys?

CLAPTON

princeofpounds wrote: »

Another interesting question, of course, is why businesses are permitted to write debt interest off their taxable income, whilst individuals are taxed on their revenue.

nonsense

even PAYE people can offset allowable expenses against their PAYE salary

System

The Tories have had to raid business to get the deficit and benefits bill down without violating EU/un human rights - living wage is part of that
And raiding the poor will strangle the economy or cause a housing crash

BananaRepublic

kinger101 wrote: »

When the council houses were sold off, the vast majority of the population would have described themselves as working class. I grew up on such a council estate and while a lot of the people were on relatively low incomes, it certainly wasn't a no-go area.

There's a reason people today need to rent from the private landlords you so despise. Because the social housing which was available previously was sold off at a massive discount to the previous generation. You might not like private landlords, but they are not the reason there's no alternative in the rental market.

You have misrepresented what I said. Firstly I ackowledged that BTL generates some benefits, such as work for lettings agents, but as I said they are massively outweighed by the downsides namely the cost to society especially the tax take. Secondly nowhere did I say that I despise private landlords. One of my friends has bought his second BTL. I say good luck to him, he is exploiting the current system. It is the system I dislike.

You hide behind the pretence that this is a typical business, as per a bakery, or a hire car company. I could not care less what you call this. It is in reality an investment scheme. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles, it's a duck. Why should I not be able to borrow to buy stocks and shares, and then offset the interest against tax? BTL is comparable, in fact it is worse. You ignored the huge cost to the taxpayer of a tenant retiring compared to a homeowner retiring, the loss of tax, and the fact that the private landlord destabilises the market, pushing up prices, creating a two tier society.

As for council estates, I've lived near enough to know to avoid. When young I was beaten up by council estate gangs. I've been attacked in a council estate as an adult. I've been harassed over the period of a year by children from a council estate.

BananaRepublic

MatthewAinsworth wrote: »

The Tories have had to raid business to get the deficit and benefits bill down without violating EU/un human rights - living wage is part of that
And raiding the poor will strangle the economy or cause a housing crash

They are making work pay, reducing tax on savings, increasing the personal allowance, seems pretty good to me. Unemployment has plummeted, I think the newly employed are benefitting.

Housing crash? Hohum.

BananaRepublic

princeofpounds wrote: »

Another interesting question, of course, is why businesses are permitted to write debt interest off their taxable income, whilst individuals are taxed on their revenue.

Or why a BTL landlord can claim tax relief from their personal income, but you cannot do the same for your own home mortgage.

System

Banana republic - they are doing those things, as they do want do do what Tory things they can, but they couldn't abolish benefits completely even if they wanted to, because of the international outcry, and with that they had to raid business via the living wage, and raid buy toilet landlords

Raiding the poor would cause a housing crash - rents would not be paid, and with that rich people would suffer. If there was a housing collapse, banks would collapse too

kinger101

BananaRepublic wrote: »

You have misrepresented what I said. Firstly I ackowledged that BTL generates some benefits, such as work for lettings agents, but as I said they are massively outweighed by the downsides namely the cost to society especially the tax take.

BTL directly generates tax receipts in the form of income tax and capital gains tax. Owner-occupation doesn’t. You STILL don’t understand this. There is no cost to the society from the tax take, as by definition, the tax receipts from BTL wouldn’t exist if BTL didn’t exist.

Secondly nowhere did I say that I despise private landlords. One of my friends has bought his second BTL. I say good luck to him, he is exploiting the current system. It is the system I dislike.

Hmmm, if think I’d entitled to infer a dislike of landlords when you say “stuff the pockets of private landlords” or "exploit the system".

You hide behind the pretence that this is a typical business, as per a bakery, or a hire car company. I could not care less what you call this.

I’m not hiding behind any pretence. I just have an understanding of the tax code.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pimmanual/pim1020.htm

It’s not a case of being a “typical” or “atypical” business. It’s just a case of businesses being taxed on profits and not turnover. Interest is a business expense.

It is in reality an investment scheme. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles, it's a duck. Why should I not be able to borrow to buy stocks and shares, and then offset the interest against tax?

Set up an investment holding company and you can (if you can find a willing bank). Or you could just purchased leveraged funds inside an ISA. Given most companies have debt on their balance sheet, you are to an extent doing this if you buy shares anyway.

BTL is comparable, in fact it is worse. You ignored the huge cost to the taxpayer of a tenant retiring compared to a homeowner retiring, the loss of tax, and the fact that the private landlord destabilises the market, pushing up prices, creating a two tier society.

I didn't ignore it. It was just a straw man. I don't disagree that this will become more of a problem with declining home ownership. It doesn't alter the nature of debt or interest though, which is what my post related to.

As for council estates, I've lived near enough to know to avoid. When young I was beaten up by council estate gangs. I've been attacked in a council estate as an adult. I've been harassed over the period of a year by children from a council estate.

Well, that's unfortunate, but it's an anecdote. Please don't judge all council estates or their residents by your experience.