postal damage and who is responsible

popalock

I bought carpet cleaner from an online store and it arrived damaged (one of the wheels was slightly cracked and there's a hairline crack in the water tank, ie it leaks!). I opened the box 2 days after receiving.

The online shop tells me because I signed for the package from the courier without stating I didn't have time to check contents/or request the courier wait a couple of hours so I test the machine AND not raise the issue with them within 24hours I must accept responsibility and pay for repairs (they said the courier only accepts complaints within 24hours).

Annoyingly I paid with a visa debit card. In future I will use PayPal or a credit card for anything high value.

Do I have to fork up for the repairs? The shop's argument is that there's no way I can prove I didn't simply drop the machine, creating the damage and thus cannot absolve responsibility.

is there anything I can do?

thanks
Alex

Ectophile

Under the new Consumer Rights Act, you have 30 days to inspect the goods and demand a refund if they are faulty. Nothing you wrote on a delivery note can remove those rights.

The company are just a bunch of chancers trying it on. If they wont help, contact your Visa card provider and ask for a chargeback.

wealdroam

popalock wrote: »

The shop's argument is that there's no way I can prove I didn't simply drop the machine, creating the damage and thus cannot absolve responsibility.

Ectophile's post is spot on.
You might want to look at MSE's Chargeback article.

Even if that wasn't the case, as the fault has appeared in the first six months, you do not have to prove anything.
During that time, any problem can be assumed to have been present at the time of sale and it is for the seller to prove otherwise.

popalock

are professional products exempt for the law? that's what the shop has just responded to me with, saying Consumer Rights do not apply to the sale of professional products!! (it's one of the cheaper professional units). They want me to pay for £200 of repairs to a unit that costs £580!.

Is it simply a matter of following the chargeback process or will I have to go through small claims potentially as well?

(what an absolute nightmare this is proving .. )

unholyangel

Professional products aren't excluded from the consumer rights act - but business 2 business contracts are.

Does the retailer sell to consumers? Was it a wholesale or trade website that you purchased from?

esuhl

popalock wrote: »

are professional products exempt for the law? that's what the shop has just responded to me with, saying Consumer Rights do not apply to the sale of professional products!! (it's one of the cheaper professional units). They want me to pay for £200 of repairs to a unit that costs £580!.

They sound like a right bunch of cowboys! I found this on a local council website:

What is a consumer?

For the purposes of this guide, a 'consumer' is an individual who, in his dealings with a trader, is not acting for the purposes of a business. Where a consumer presents himself as a business (for example, by buying goods for personal use from a trade outlet on a trade account) the law does not consider him to be a consumer.
...
If the trader claims that the buyer is not a consumer and that the buyer's rights are therefore limited, it is for the trader to prove this.

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/business/trading-standards/trading-advice/details.aspx?doc_id=312237&cat_id=2#tsi3

popalock wrote: »

Is it simply a matter of following the chargeback process or will I have to go through small claims potentially as well?

I generally find that if you find the right bits of legislation and write them a concise letter explaining your rights in law and that you will take them to court if they refuse to comply... companies usually respond pretty quickly.

If you reject the goods because they are faulty, you're entitled to a refund, including the original postage charge AND any reasonable return postage costs (if the company don't arrange to collect it themselves).

popalock

Yes they sell to retail customers.

looking at the website nothing is mentioned this is for business to business only. The unit itself also doesn't mention the words "commericial"/"professional" or similar anywhere.

going through the terms and conditions of sale.

thanks you very much for the feed back everyone! keep up the good work

popalock

just read the small print on their website. All they say is to check the packaging for damage at the time of receiving the unit and refuse delivery if damaged.

How you interpret "damage" is a bit tricky as there is expected damage to a box in transite (scrapes, marks and the odd knock/small dent to the exterior of the box). So terms are a little vague.

Called up HSBC and they've sent me a dispute form to fill out and asked me to check the seller's terms of sale to determine if they are in breach of contract.

deanos

its not reasonable to inspect items when they are delivered, a courier wont gang around at every delivery for customers to inspect things when they an have lots of other drops to get to

bris

Whilst as a consumer you wouldn't have a problem here, the issue I suspect is that you are not a consumer.


A cleaner at £580 sounds like a business purchase which greatly diminishes your rights. Certainly to the extent that a charge back would fail when the supplier points out that it is a business purchase, which they will no doubt do.


This leaves contract law meaning you to take it to the small claims court for breach of contract, if the judge believes the contract has been breached you will win, if not you lose.

neilmcl

It does seem odd that a "consumer" would spend £580 on a professional carpet cleaner, it's not like you'd be using it all the time unless you had carpet cleaning business.