Power of attorney question

DesperateScousewife

I have joint lasting POA with my brother for my mum who has dementia. My brother is insisting that he is put on my mums bank account and that he and his wife audit her account through Internet banking.
My mum does not want this.
I have heard that With my mums permission I can make the account single signature (mine). With my brother having no access to the account which I believe would be in her best interests. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Keep_pedalling

You both have POA but it seems neither of you want the other to be involved which seems a bit odd.

If you mother did not want either of you to have access to her bank accounts via the Internet then should have been documented on the LPA application.

Your sister in law should not be allowed anywhere near you mother's accounts, which should be kept in her name alone, but equally you cannot shut your brother out in the way you suggest.

You can both obtain a debit card and online access to your mothers accounts and this is probably the best thing to do as there seems to be trust issues between you.

How can you and your brother act? Jointly or jointly and severally?

DesperateScousewife

I do want to be involved. I have my mothers best interests at heart. I have dealt with all the paperwork so far. My brother filled out and registered the POAs for my mum and late father.
My brother is insisting nothing new is bought for my mums house and is trying to sort out how much she will be 'allowed' each month. Surely It's my mums money and she is entitled to spend it as she wishes.

We act jointly.

Keep_pedalling

As the LPA is set up for the attorneys to act jointly then neither of you can do anything without the other, and if you can't agree on anything then the LPA is as good as useless.

securityguy

"I have heard that With my mums permission"

If she has dementia and is incapable of acting for herself (which presumably triggered the LPA) it's quite possible that she can't give that permission meaningfully. It's complex because someone can lose capacity to the point that an LPA is triggered but then still be capable of making decisions in other matters. As an example, my mother in law quite properly, and with the agreement of both doctors and solicitors, signed a health and welfare LPA subsequent to the triggering of an pre-existing financial affairs EPA. She wasn't able to manage her affairs, but could make rational decisions (even she couldn't remember the conversation an hour later).

But if you have a joint LPA and don't trust each other, then as KP says the LPA is useless anyway.

DesperateScousewife

My mum lives alone and is able to go out alone shopping etc. if she uses the hole in the wall she spends ages putting her card away, she could be mugged or walk away and leave the cash. Her main problem is with her not eating due to the dementia.

securityguy

But the fact remains that you have a joint, rather than a joint and several or a sole name, POA and therefore if you and your brother cannot agree, nothing can happen. That's why such POAs are difficult, and the wise child doesn't agree to be party to one.

Keep_pedalling

securityguy wrote: »

But the fact remains that you have a joint, rather than a joint and several or a sole name, POA and therefore if you and your brother cannot agree, nothing can happen. That's why such POAs are difficult, and the wise child doesn't agree to be party to one.

The other problem with only joint authority to act is that neither of you can hold a debit card on the account, and you can't do on line banking. All you can do is write cheques and they will have to carry both signatures, which is not much use if like me you have do do all your mum's shopping and pay her bills.

It sounds like she still has the capacity to make decisions, so it may be for the best if your mother revokes the existing POA and starts again, and it would probably best if she paid a solicitor to draw this up to avoid this going wrong again and to make sure you or your brother do not have undue influence over the other.

DesperateScousewife

Just had a proper look at POA and its Jointly for some decisions and severally for others.
Jointly for selling property and personal items. Withdrawing money over £1500. Making donations to charities and individuals.

I'm guessing thus makes a big difference ?

Keep_pedalling

I am not sure, you would need to talk to the bank about the £1,500 limit. If you hold a POA debit card, and have access to online banking the bank does not have any way of limiting individual transactions and for this reason they may not allow you those facilities.

I would suggest that you and you brother make an joint appointment with the bank to see what is possible.

RAS

When we had joint and several with a limit on the amount for several action (higher than yours) we were unable to use internet banking. And under no account is SIL allowed access to her accounts