Advice needed regarding Mandatory work experience

FBaby

sangie595 wrote: »

I do not believe that I said that people with anxiety are unfit to work. I said that it seemed that the OP was unfit to work, and the reason she is giving is social anxiety.

We have three pages of discussion here, and the OP's position, in short, is that she might be able to do a couple of hours a week voluntary work, maybe, if she feels up to it. She can't manage working unless it is a job that is preferably in her own home, and not dealing with any people at all. She might be able, one day, to cope with work as long as she has her own office and doesn't have to deal with people. And that's not dealing with people full stop - even scripted conversations such as call centres are not a possibility. And she can't work on a mandatory work placement because it is too many hours and she would have to deal with people.

Which part of that suggests that the OP is fit for work? What jobs would be OP be able to do that involve working when you are up to it, from your own home and without having to deal with people. Because I am struggling to think of something that fits the bill.

The circumstances that the OP is describing are incompatible with JSA. So she is facing either getting over her social anxiety very fast; or falling foul of JSA rules and ending up with a sanction. I doubt the former is going to happen, and if her JSA is stopped I am not seeing her anxiety improving any at all.

I don't disagree at all with your advice to the OP about moving forward. But JSA isn't going to provide the space needed to do this at the pace the OP is suggesting.

You said it was obvious that OP was unfit for work. I think one aspect of anxiety is that sufferers naturally under-estimate what they are able to do. I don't know OP so couldn't say whether they are unfit or not, but I don't think the opposite can be assumed either.

OP has been on JSA for some months and so far, it hasn't been an issue. It is just that it has reached a stage where she is expected to do a bit more than nothing. Volunteering seems to be an option, however, being on JSA means actively looking for work, and at the moment, what seems to be questioned is the active part of looking for a voluntary position.

missbiggles1

Andrea2528 wrote: »

If it's in the same room as other people, then no, I don't think it would suit me as it would be too stressful to talk to customers when other people are listening to me. There aren't many of those types of jobs in the area that I live. It's quite a small area. If it was working in a room on my own, then possibly it would be preferable.

Unless you're being monitored, nobody's going to be listening to you - they're all be too busy on the phone themselves!

ETA

Although you say your problems are different from shyness, in many ways they seem to be the same. Shy people often think that everybody's looking at them when really nobody has even noticed they're there.

sangie595

FBaby wrote: »

You said it was obvious that OP was unfit for work. I think one aspect of anxiety is that sufferers naturally under-estimate what they are able to do. I don't know OP so couldn't say whether they are unfit or not, but I don't think the opposite can be assumed either.

OP has been on JSA for some months and so far, it hasn't been an issue. It is just that it has reached a stage where she is expected to do a bit more than nothing. Volunteering seems to be an option, however, being on JSA means actively looking for work, and at the moment, what seems to be questioned is the active part of looking for a voluntary position.

I'm sorry but I am going to have to disagree then. The OP is either fit for work or not fit for work. It's not my call, admittedly, but JSA is for people who are fit for work. Full time work. And any work available. JSA always expects a little more than "nothing" - I can't understand how you think that "nothing" has been acceptable ever. And I think the advisor has been very clear - volunteering is acceptable but not for a couple of hours when the OP feels up to it.

I can't see how the OP is even fit (in their version of reality) for even "a little more than nothing". But since the OP doesn't seem to be of a mind that "more" of anything is acceptable, but also isn't helping themselves by even going to another board to ask if there is anything they can do - well I am out, because "what I can't do" isn't going to cut it, and I don't want to see the next bit of the saga when the OP is sanctioned and has no money to live on.

It is one way or the other - fit to work or not fit to work. Given the OP's description I can't see how they are fit to work. And if they are fir to work then the OP had better buck up - because that means full time work at any job, without picking and choosing what they can or cannot do.

Sympathy is wonderful. Reality is better.

Andrea2528

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I am going to have to disagree then. The OP is either fit for work or not fit for work. It's not my call, admittedly, but JSA is for people who are fit for work. Full time work. And any work available. JSA always expects a little more than "nothing" - I can't understand how you think that "nothing" has been acceptable ever. And I think the advisor has been very clear - volunteering is acceptable but not for a couple of hours when the OP feels up to it.

I can't see how the OP is even fit (in their version of reality) for even "a little more than nothing". But since the OP doesn't seem to be of a mind that "more" of anything is acceptable, but also isn't helping themselves by even going to another board to ask if there is anything they can do - well I am out, because "what I can't do" isn't going to cut it, and I don't want to see the next bit of the saga when the OP is sanctioned and has no money to live on.

It is one way or the other - fit to work or not fit to work. Given the OP's description I can't see how they are fit to work. And if they are fir to work then the OP had better buck up - because that means full time work at any job, without picking and choosing what they can or cannot do.

Sympathy is wonderful. Reality is better.

In reply to this, the advisor did not agree to any set number of hours doing voluntary work. However, when I told him why I think voluntary work would suit me better at the moment, he appeared to be agreeable to me doing that and when I asked if he had any contact numbers, he gave the address, telephone number and website for the voluntary organisation. He told me that I should start looking into finding something before I was due to sign on. In the meantime, I rang the voluntary organisation twice and they said they had found something suitable. So, I did what the advisor asked me to do and that's why I'm surprised that he wasn't more supportive when I told him I had kept to the agreement. It's as though we had never discussed me doing any voluntary work. If that's what he agreed to, then he should also keep to his word. You might not agree with that. If he wasn't satisfied with me doing voluntary work, then a person in his situation should have made that very clear prior to me looking for something.

Andrea2528

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Unless you're being monitored, nobody's going to be listening to you - they're all be too busy on the phone themselves!

ETA

Although you say your problems are different from shyness, in many ways they seem to be the same. Shy people often think that everybody's looking at them when really nobody has even noticed they're there.

As I previously stated, it is not the same as shyness. If you Google social anxiety, you'll get plenty of information about it.

sangie595

Andrea2528 wrote: »

In reply to this, the advisor did not agree to any set number of hours doing voluntary work. However, when I told him why I think voluntary work would suit me better at the moment, he appeared to be agreeable to me doing that and when I asked if he had any contact numbers, he gave the address, telephone number and website for the voluntary organisation. He told me that I should start looking into finding something before I was due to sign on. In the meantime, I rang the voluntary organisation twice and they said they had found something suitable. So, I did what the advisor asked me to do and that's why I'm surprised that he wasn't more supportive when I told him I had kept to the agreement. It's as though we had never discussed me doing any voluntary work. If that's what he agreed to, then he should also keep to his word. You might not agree with that. If he wasn't satisfied with me doing voluntary work, then a person in his situation should have made that very clear prior to me looking for something.

My last comments here because I am wasting my time.

You are talking at cross purposes. He'd have accepted voluntary work that was equivalent to the mandatory work programme. He wasn't supportive because he thought you meant doing voluntary work (full time or for a significant amount of hours), and you meant doing a couple of hours if you felt up to it. You aren't talking the same language. and his is the only one that matters.

But as far as you are concerned it's him in the wrong for doing is job, and you won't or can't work/ seek work/ do voluntary work for a significant amount of hours. I am sympathetic to the fact that you say you can't. But if you can't then JSA is not for you. So you need to do something about that and despite several tellings that you need to have a look at your benefit claims, you won't. And absolutely no job anyone suggest is acceptable to you.

I don't see what else can be said. You can have loads more sympathy here, but sympathy here isn't worth a brass farthing. Nobody here makes the rules. You are thinking you are talking to a goldfish, when it is actually a shark. I've told you this before, and this is once more - you are deemed to be fully fit for full time work. Any full time work. With no objections, and no "I can't"s. You are heading down the road to a sanction, and I am sure that when you get it there will be a lot more sympathy here again. Which is cold comfort when you have no money to eat or pay the bills.

If you can't see that I am trying to give you help and not sympathy, well ok. I do wish you well, but I don't have high hopes that that means anything. I'm out.

Flyonthewall

Andrea2528 wrote: »

he appeared to be agreeable to me doing that and when I asked if he had any contact numbers, he gave the address, telephone number and website for the voluntary organisation. He told me that I should start looking into finding something before I was due to sign on. In the meantime, I rang the voluntary organisation twice and they said they had found something suitable. So, I did what the advisor asked me to do and that's why I'm surprised that he wasn't more supportive when I told him I had kept to the agreement.

None of us were there to know the exact conversation, the tone in which it was said, his body language or expectations previously.

So it's either:
1. He forgot the previous conversation.
2. He remembered, but is being told to push MWA and is doing so.
3. He may have said start and given you a start point, but he still expected you to do more. (Proof of applications to volunteer positions maybe. Date of interview/meeting with a volunteer place. A list of places you'd contacted and sites you'd used. Not just that you rang the place he told you about twice.)

I suspect it's likely to be a case of 2 and 3, but possibly also not remembering specifics of the previous meting with him.

Did you give him details on the suitable position found or just say they said they found something?

If you don't want him to put you on MWA next time then give him more details on the volunteering.

Even if the place say they've found somewhere go on the site I linked you to, apply for stuff, print screen applications and print them off along with any emails

Go on job sites and search volunteer positions and write down each site you've checked and when you've checked (check it numerous times).

See if there are any other organisations near you that help people find volunteer work. Contact them. If by email print that off to show. If by phone write down their contact details and when you phoned and what they said.

You haven't said exactly what's happening with the suitable position found. If unsure/you don't know contact them again to find out. Arrange a meeting or start day. Then write down when you contacted them and what was said.

If it is number 3 then you should know because he's less likely to push MWA with proof you're doing something. If it's not then it's probably 2, but at least you're still doing something to try and help yourself. You never know what you may find. Nothing to stop you doing a few hours at a couple of places or doing something else if that other opportunity isn't a guaranteed thing.

Andrea2528

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote: »

Yeah, those websites can be a real enabler. All kinds of new symptoms and validations that you can use to block your life from moving forward.

I am not the type of person to use social anxiety as an excuse to prevent myself moving forward. No need to reply.

Tygermoth

You may not be using it as an excuse to move forward... but you are not moving forward regardless.

Please reread Sangies posts - s/he has clearly explained your issue. Re JSA/VOL work and why you will end up in a bigger mess if YOU dont take some control of this issue.

Speak to mental health advocates, ring schemes and services - get help either to be reviewed in ESA or to find suitable work that matches you and the JSA requirements or you will end up sanctioned.

thats not the job centre dude being 'mean' or not taking to account your personal needs - he does not have to - JSA is for full time job seekers and you are not complying to the fullness of the benefit contract.

Sorry.

Andrea2528

sangie595 wrote: »

My last comments here because I am wasting my time.

You are talking at cross purposes. He'd have accepted voluntary work that was equivalent to the mandatory work programme. He wasn't supportive because he thought you meant doing voluntary work (full time or for a significant amount of hours), and you meant doing a couple of hours if you felt up to it. You aren't talking the same language. and his is the only one that matters.

But as far as you are concerned it's him in the wrong for doing is job, and you won't or can't work/ seek work/ do voluntary work for a significant amount of hours. I am sympathetic to the fact that you say you can't. But if you can't then JSA is not for you. So you need to do something about that and despite several tellings that you need to have a look at your benefit claims, you won't. And absolutely no job anyone suggest is acceptable to you.

I don't see what else can be said. You can have loads more sympathy here, but sympathy here isn't worth a brass farthing. Nobody here makes the rules. You are thinking you are talking to a goldfish, when it is actually a shark. I've told you this before, and this is once more - you are deemed to be fully fit for full time work. Any full time work. With no objections, and no "I can't"s. You are heading down the road to a sanction, and I am sure that when you get it there will be a lot more sympathy here again. Which is cold comfort when you have no money to eat or pay the bills.

If you can't see that I am trying to give you help and not sympathy, well ok. I do wish you well, but I don't have high hopes that that means anything. I'm out.

You weren't there and I know what I explained to him and he understood what I was telling him. I am trying to move forward in the way that I think is best for someone in my situation.