Advice needed regarding Mandatory work experience

sangie595

Andrea2528 wrote: »

I've been on JSA since the summer after appealing against the ESA decision. I was on anti-depressants a long time, and as I said previously, they had very little affect. I tried more than one type of medicine and they weren't effective. I have been to see more than one psychologist and spoken to several professionals regarding social anxiety and related depression. It's not as though I haven't tried to overcome it. Since ATOS made their decision that I should no longer receive ESA, I have had no choice but to claim the JSA allowance. You have to experience social anxiety to know how much of an affect it has on someone socially.

I am really sorry, but you have said all that almost word for word before - and none of it is relevant to what I have told you. Put very bluntly, right at this moment nobody has to experience social anxiety because nobody cares what effect it has on you. You have been deemed fit to work full-time. You are in a system that is geared for you to either work or not claim benefits - there isn't a middle ground.

I appreciate that you may have tried both medications and therapy before, but the fact that those particular things didn't help you doesn't mean that you are at the end of the road. There are always other things to try. I can't imagine it is fun to live as you do, so I would be desperate to try anything to not feel like you do. But from the point of view of the system, and I am sorry but I am going to say this bluntly - there is nothing wrong with you. If there were, then you would be in some form of treatment. You aren't, so it looks like you are either faking it or being deliberately obstructive to the possibility of getting any better.

I do understand that that isn't what is happening, but you need to understand that the system doesn't negotiate with you - you are deemed fully fit for work and until you get your GP to say otherwise, the system will roll on, and if necessary it will roll over you. There is no sympathy in the system. So I am sorry, but telling everyone that you can't know what it is like until you have experienced social anxiety is meaningless; finding a reason why everything that isn't what you want to do is putting up barriers to employment which risk you getting sanctioned. JSA will simply not accept a couple of hours volunteering, if you feel up to it on any given day, as an acceptable alternative to anything. And giving them a list of what you will (work from home, have an office of your own) and won't (work with other people) is going to be seen as deliberately putting up barriers to employment, which will also get you sanctioned..

Now it is obvious to me at least that you do not seem to be fit enough to work, but the system says that you are. The system that tells the advisor what actions he must take is telling him that you are fit for work. You have had a few people telling you - go to the benefits board and see if there is anything that can now be done to change that, because then you will go back to ESA. That isn't a big reach, but you haven't done it.

And I am really sorry about being blunt because I don't want to be harsh, but you need to understand that in this system there are blunt facts, and you are on the wrong side of those blunt facts.

FBaby

Now it is obvious to me at least that you do not seem to be fit enough to work, but the system says that you are.

How is it obvious? Anxiety alone doesn't mean someone is unfair to work. OP has expressed that she has issues with working closely with colleagues, that still leaves many jobs that can be done.

There are no miracle cures to anxiety. The only way it can get better is by confronting the stimulus that causes it. Treatment is about how to help cope going through it, but ultimately, if one's way of dealing with it is to avoid it, it just won't happen.

OP, you seem prepare to consider voluntary work as a first step towards facing your fears and that's great, but you now need to take the second step and take actions to get that role. Yes, it will mean stepping out of your comfort zone, but at the same time, you need to remind yourself that doing will mean avoiding what makes you really anxious and that is to be forced to take on activities you don't think you could cope with.

You need to build yourself a plan of action that you think you can cope with to get you a voluntary post and then force yourself to get through each step of that plan. There is no two ways about it, you are not going to stop being anxious about being around people by staying away from them. Do remember that it is very possible to combat anxiety and find yourself engaging in activities you never thought you would be able to do, so do keep positive and believing in yourself. You can do it, but you have to focus on what you need to do to get there rather than focusing on what you can do to avoid it.

Andrea2528

sangie595 wrote: »

I am really sorry, but you have said all that almost word for word before - and none of it is relevant to what I have told you. Put very bluntly, right at this moment nobody has to experience social anxiety because nobody cares what effect it has on you. You have been deemed fit to work full-time. You are in a system that is geared for you to either work or not claim benefits - there isn't a middle ground.

I appreciate that you may have tried both medications and therapy before, but the fact that those particular things didn't help you doesn't mean that you are at the end of the road. There are always other things to try. I can't imagine it is fun to live as you do, so I would be desperate to try anything to not feel like you do. But from the point of view of the system, and I am sorry but I am going to say this bluntly - there is nothing wrong with you. If there were, then you would be in some form of treatment. You aren't, so it looks like you are either faking it or being deliberately obstructive to the possibility of getting any better.

I do understand that that isn't what is happening, but you need to understand that the system doesn't negotiate with you - you are deemed fully fit for work and until you get your GP to say otherwise, the system will roll on, and if necessary it will roll over you. There is no sympathy in the system. So I am sorry, but telling everyone that you can't know what it is like until you have experienced social anxiety is meaningless; finding a reason why everything that isn't what you want to do is putting up barriers to employment which risk you getting sanctioned. JSA will simply not accept a couple of hours volunteering, if you feel up to it on any given day, as an acceptable alternative to anything. And giving them a list of what you will (work from home, have an office of your own) and won't (work with other people) is going to be seen as deliberately putting up barriers to employment, which will also get you sanctioned..

Now it is obvious to me at least that you do not seem to be fit enough to work, but the system says that you are. The system that tells the advisor what actions he must take is telling him that you are fit for work. You have had a few people telling you - go to the benefits board and see if there is anything that can now be done to change that, because then you will go back to ESA. That isn't a big reach, but you haven't done it.

And I am really sorry about being blunt because I don't want to be harsh, but you need to understand that in this system there are blunt facts, and you are on the wrong side of those blunt facts.

When I appealed the ESA decision, I kept supplying doctor's notes to the beneftis office. However, it made no difference and therefore I was in a situation where I had to either receive no benefits or apply for the Job Seekers Allowance.

If there are other things to try, I can't afford them. I tried hypnotherapy some time ago and that cost quite a bit and it had no effect at all. There are others in my situation who aren't even prepared to do voluntary work. I'm not trying to make excuses. It's hard enough the thought of having to go into the job centre in the first place. I've heard others say that his attitude is quite poor and he doesn't even present himself that well.

Andrea2528

FBaby wrote: »

How is it obvious? Anxiety alone doesn't mean someone is unfair to work. OP has expressed that she has issues with working closely with colleagues, that still leaves many jobs that can be done.

There are no miracle cures to anxiety. The only way it can get better is by confronting the stimulus that causes it. Treatment is about how to help cope going through it, but ultimately, if one's way of dealing with it is to avoid it, it just won't happen.

OP, you seem prepare to consider voluntary work as a first step towards facing your fears and that's great, but you now need to take the second step and take actions to get that role. Yes, it will mean stepping out of your comfort zone, but at the same time, you need to remind yourself that doing will mean avoiding what makes you really anxious and that is to be forced to take on activities you don't think you could cope with.

You need to build yourself a plan of action that you think you can cope with to get you a voluntary post and then force yourself to get through each step of that plan. There is no two ways about it, you are not going to stop being anxious about being around people by staying away from them. Do remember that it is very possible to combat anxiety and find yourself engaging in activities you never thought you would be able to do, so do keep positive and believing in yourself. You can do it, but you have to focus on what you need to do to get there rather than focusing on what you can do to avoid it.

Can you tell me what types of jobs involve not working with other people?

Poppie68

OP I have suffered 2 breakdowns over the last 10 years, suffer from chronic depression had to retire from work 3 years ago due to ill health, now have to use a wheelchair 80% of the time, had a stroke a few months ago which has led to me suffering from severe anxiety..... The best advice the GP gave me has changed my life to a certain agree.....He told me to get out, try new things as eventually I will find something that I feel happy with.... He was right, I forced myself even after I had thrown up through anxiety to go through the front door...I force myself to instigate conversations with everyone I meet and it's working.....
In the end its only you that can change your life but you've got to start by accepting that and push yourself.

FBaby

Andrea2528 wrote: »

Can you tell me what types of jobs involve not working with other people?

You said that you would be ok to speak to customers as long as not in the same room with colleagues. Being in your own room is unlikely, but many call centre jobs are in small cubicles where colleagues can't see or hear you so this does indeed sound more realistic.

You say they are not many jobs like this in your area, but surely they are not that many voluntary roles either, and certainly not many that won't involve having to make small talk, if anything, this is much more likely to be a part of the voluntary experience than any paid job.

sangie595

FBaby wrote: »

How is it obvious? Anxiety alone doesn't mean someone is unfair to work. .

I do not believe that I said that people with anxiety are unfit to work. I said that it seemed that the OP was unfit to work, and the reason she is giving is social anxiety.

We have three pages of discussion here, and the OP's position, in short, is that she might be able to do a couple of hours a week voluntary work, maybe, if she feels up to it. She can't manage working unless it is a job that is preferably in her own home, and not dealing with any people at all. She might be able, one day, to cope with work as long as she has her own office and doesn't have to deal with people. And that's not dealing with people full stop - even scripted conversations such as call centres are not a possibility. And she can't work on a mandatory work placement because it is too many hours and she would have to deal with people.

Which part of that suggests that the OP is fit for work? What jobs would be OP be able to do that involve working when you are up to it, from your own home and without having to deal with people. Because I am struggling to think of something that fits the bill.

The circumstances that the OP is describing are incompatible with JSA. So she is facing either getting over her social anxiety very fast; or falling foul of JSA rules and ending up with a sanction. I doubt the former is going to happen, and if her JSA is stopped I am not seeing her anxiety improving any at all.

I don't disagree at all with your advice to the OP about moving forward. But JSA isn't going to provide the space needed to do this at the pace the OP is suggesting.

Andrea2528

Poppie68 wrote: »

OP I have suffered 2 breakdowns over the last 10 years, suffer from chronic depression had to retire from work 3 years ago due to ill health, now have to use a wheelchair 80% of the time, had a stroke a few months ago which has led to me suffering from severe anxiety..... The best advice the GP gave me has changed my life to a certain agree.....He told me to get out, try new things as eventually I will find something that I feel happy with.... He was right, I forced myself even after I had thrown up through anxiety to go through the front door...I force myself to instigate conversations with everyone I meet and it's working.....
In the end its only you that can change your life but you've got to start by accepting that and push yourself.

I think the doctor gave you some good advice. I also force myself to speak to people and I'm ok with initial meetings but I struggle after that and I don't know how to continue being in the same social environment as the majority of people. I think that voluntary work will suit me better than going on the MWA, which is why I started this thread. That's the only reason I started this thread and it should have been on the benefits board.

ineed

Andrea2528 wrote: »

When I appealed the ESA decision, I kept supplying doctor's notes to the beneftis office. However, it made no difference and therefore I was in a situation where I had to either receive no benefits or apply for the Job Seekers Allowance.

If there are other things to try, I can't afford them. I tried hypnotherapy some time ago and that cost quite a bit and it had no effect at all. There are others in my situation who aren't even prepared to do voluntary work. I'm not trying to make excuses. It's hard enough the thought of having to go into the job centre in the first place. I've heard others say that his attitude is quite poor and he doesn't even present himself that well.

I understand, really I do. I've suffered severe anxiety myself as part of my illnesses and certain medications have sometimes actually made it worse. Where I live now the mental health services are brilliant, truly I wouldn't be where I am today without them but tbh that's not the case in many areas unless you really push for it. Could you go back and ask your GP about a referral for a more long term treatment like perhaps psychiatrist appointments? The waiting lists can be long but they are so very helpful in my experience in getting to the roots of your personal triggers.

Don't give up on yourself and overcoming this, you deserve to live a normal life not be controlled and dictated to by anxiety.

Flyonthewall

Andrea2528 wrote: »

If it's in the same room as other people, then no, I don't think it would suit me as it would be too stressful to talk to customers when other people are listening to me. There aren't many of those types of jobs in the area that I live. It's quite a small area. If it was working in a room on my own, then possibly it would be preferable.

The others wouldn't be listening, they'd be too busy doing their own jobs. The best thing would be to block them out and focus on what you need to do, just as they'll be doing. Don't think about other things. Focus on the job.

Might be hard at first but focusing your mind on the job and blocking out everything will probably be a big help. You won't have time to think about other things if you're busy working.

Also when you feel anxious you need to just take a moment to remind yourself that you're perfectly fine then make yourself busy again.

Even if you feel like leaving just take a moment. Remind yourself that you're fine, there's no need to be anxious and say you'll give it 5 more minutes and if you still don't feel you can handle it you'll leave the room. When the 5 minutes are up remind yourself you managed it and nothing bad happened. Persuade yourself you can manage longer.

Problem is that everytime you do leave out of anxiety/panic you've given in to it, especially if you leave a place for good and keep moving on to the next place. It may be a way to cope and that's fine, but it's not a way to get over it. The way to do that is to face your fear and keep thinking positive. You can do it and you know you can, you just need to actually do it.

Volunteering will be a good way to do this. If you need a break it's fine, they're not paying you, you're offering your time and so everything is more flexible. Try not to take a break too often though and try and stick with it rather than moving on.

Chances are when it comes to small talk they don't know what to say either or they'll just talk for the both of you or ask questions which you just answer or simply be happy in silence. When it comes to people being around you or being able to hear you they're probably not paying attention to you and it's not likely they're listening to you when you're not talking to them because they'll be busy with their own jobs.

It's very easy to overthink things and it's very hard to force yourself to stay where you are and refocus your mind when all your mind is saying to you is that you need to get out of there, but it's not impossible.