Planning Permission Condition not adhered to

phil24_7

Highways conditions are completely different to planning. They have the power to remove/make you remove the fence in the future...they don't however, have the resources.

I live on a designated trunk road, this means you cannot reverse onto or off of your drive, nor can you perform 3 point turns (basically you can't use reverse gear!) so had pretty stringent conditions put on my extension/garage. When doing mine he highlighted that many houses on the street had parking spaces on the land at the front of their house that had no planning consent/dropped kerbs and more importantly, had no highways authority. 4 years later nothing has been done, not even letters being sent out.

I think you are more than safe in re-erecting the fence in exactly the same position.

Regards
Phil

mishkanorman

Is the rest of the street quite open plan ? We arent allowed to put a wall or fence higher than a metre at the boundary or it has to be set back 6ft from the pavement if we want higher.

Ectophile

TangoFiver wrote: »

Do you know if there would be any other reasons?

After doing a google-streeview-driveby, it doesn't appear to block views to any junction at all :huh:

The only person the view would be impinging on is my sister when she comes out of her drive, so maybe that was the reason? It's only a quiet cul-de-sac but I suppose in the safety-conscious world it would have to be taken into account...

I expect the same term applies to every house on the estate. But as others have said, once the building company has finished building the estate and moved on, nobody will be bothering to enforce the rules any more.

Furts

TangoFiver wrote: »

So, if she does replace the knackered fence in its current position, and it only affects her, then it's unlikely to attract the notice of planning officials?

And what about if it's been in it's current position for 5 years? When we moved house, our solicitor said that as long as the conservatory was in place for 5 years, it doesn't matter if planning consent exists...

...or would this be irrelevant as her fence has a condition of county highways??

Very confusing, but thank you all for your input!

Highways are an interesting bunch of folks. I am subject to their rules on the location of my home. I have done extensive works to my home and every time people have said "Highways will not approve". This has even come from the Planning Department. The reality is I have met the Highways folks, informally, there after on a number of ocassions and every time they have been as good as gold. They have bent the rules and gone out of their way to be helpful. I give them credit for doing so.

OP could try this with the fence. Arrange an informal visit from the local Highways Inspector. Be respectful and courteous, offer tea or coffee, and ask are there issues with road safety, or concealed services, or a shared services strip with the land in question.

MisterBaxter

Furts wrote: »

Highways are an interesting bunch of folks. I am subject to their rules on the location of my home. I have done extensive works to my home and every time people have said "Highways will not approve". This has even come from the Planning Department. The reality is I have met the Highways folks, informally, there after on a number of ocassions and every time they have been as good as gold. They have bent the rules and gone out of their way to be helpful. I give them credit for doing so.

OP could try this with the fence. Arrange an informal visit from the local Highways Inspector. Be respectful and courteous, offer tea or coffee, and ask are there issues with road safety, or concealed services, or a shared services strip with the land in question.

I would normally agree with taking this sort of approach when dealing with the Local Authority but in this instance I would be tempted to let it lie and not invite comment.

It has gone 5 years without the Local Authority intervening, if you invite them in now it is opening up an invitation for them to say no. Even if invited informally to comment it would be remiss of them to advise anything other than compliance. They may tell you what they would do in the same circumstances but you couldn't then rely on that as a defence against enforcement. Of course they may also offer a viable solution but that also can't be guaranteed.

I have worked in the public sector and always tried to give practical solutions but when being held to account the advice always had to be compliant. No matter what I thought, the person who followed me may not be flexible and it leaves matters open to conflict; ultimately the customer comes off worse.

TangoFiver

Thank you all for your replies!

Sorry it's been a few days, but we've had a few 'issues' up here in the North-West thanks to Desmond :-(

Anyway, I've passed all your comments/suggestions on to my sister so will give her something to think about.

I'll probably be back at some point when things settle down a bit to pick your brains further!

Thank you again :-)

planning_officer

MisterBaxter is correct above, about the 10 year rule. When a condition on a planning permission is breached for 10 years, it becomes immune from enforcement action (the logic being that if nobody has complained about in that time, it can't be doing much harm).


In this case, the breach started in 2009 at the earliest, so it hasn't been 10 years. So, technically, replacing the fence would need planning permission and could be subject to enforcement action if the LPA found out and deemed it unacceptable. However, like others say, they will only find out if someone says something. In my experience that is most likely to be a Parish Council, but it could be anyone. But it is also fairly unlikely, unless it's a prominent site.

TangoFiver wrote: »

When we moved house, our solicitor said that as long as the conservatory was in place for 5 years, it doesn't matter if planning consent exists...

...or would this be irrelevant as her fence has a condition of county highways??

This is because the four year rule applies for buildings not subject to conditions (it's 4 years, not 5!)

phil24_7 wrote: »

Highways conditions are completely different to planning.

Not really - this was a condition on a planning permission. It is still subject to the same 10 year rule as all planning conditions, regardless of who requests them. If the development is on highway land, then the highway authority has separate powers to remove obstructions. But if it's not on their land, it's the same as any planning condition.

Furts

planning_officer wrote: »

MisterBaxter is correct above, about the 10 year rule. When a condition on a planning permission is breached for 10 years, it becomes immune from enforcement action (the logic being that if nobody has complained about in that time, it can't be doing much harm).


In this case, the breach started in 2009 at the earliest, so it hasn't been 10 years. So, technically, replacing the fence would need planning permission and could be subject to enforcement action if the LPA found out and deemed it unacceptable. However, like others say, they will only find out if someone says something. In my experience that is most likely to be a Parish Council, but it could be anyone. But it is also fairly unlikely, unless it's a prominent site.


This is because the four year rule applies for buildings not subject to conditions (it's 4 years, not 5!)


Not really - this was a condition on a planning permission. It is still subject to the same 10 year rule as all planning conditions, regardless of who requests them. If the development is on highway land, then the highway authority has separate powers to remove obstructions. But if it's not on their land, it's the same as any planning condition.

An excellent reply. I would also add that things change as years go by which impacts on the 4 and 10 year rule. Taking my home as an example, there is a visibility splay outside to aid road safety when cars access the highway. This was a requirement when Planning was sought. It is not a requirement now because the road has since been de-classified.