UKPC PCN issued to leasehold flat tenant

yy2uker

Got PCN on rented place in gated car park with allocated parking space.

First ticket ignored as UKPC was banned by DVLA

Second one was just after they can get access data from dvla

Appeal after get NTK, did not get POPLA code, UKPC pretend they had issued a letter, they told BPA they send the email, and they produced a fake copy of PDF attachment with a modified date on it. Complaint to BPA, BPA close the case as they 'think' UKPC did nothing wrong. UKPC pass pcn to DRP, they claim £150 and ask £125 to settle. Then, I send them a letter before claim.

Third one was one month later

UKPC was not trying to send popla on time, after I get Debt Recovery letter for the Second PCN. I had to email UKPC to get them send the POPLA code. They are trying to delay the popla code and get straight to Debt Recovery stage. Anyway, I got the POPLA code, and filed it on popla website.

Today I get the decision.
Decision Successful
Assessor supporting rational for decision
The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the basis the appellant did not display a valid permit. The appellant states the operator does not have landowner authority to pursue charges. Section 7 of the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice requires operators to own the land or to have written authority from the landowner to operate on the land. As the operator has failed to provide any evidence in response to this ground of appeal, it has failed to prove that it has the required authority to operate on the land in question. I note the appellant has raised other grounds of appeal. However, I will not consider any further grounds as they will have no bearing on my decision.

Thank you for all your help.











Today I received a letter from DRP Debt Recovery Plus Ltd demanding an unpaid parking charge £150, I had submitted my appeal and demanding a POPLA code a while ago, get a response from UKPC demanding driver's information, in the letter it states that If I do not supply such information a POPLA verification code will be provided. However I did not get the code at all.



Hello everyone.
I just rent a flat with my friend, the car park is managed by UKPC, the landlord gave me an allocated parking permit.

Till now I got three window tickets from UKPC, two of them are lost.

the first time I got a ticket was because I did not park at right parking slot, I parked my car one slot away from my allocated one to leave a reasonable space for the car next to my car, I knew the space next to mine is not used by anyone, I did not see any car parking at there since moved in. The ticket was issued 26 Oct 2015, at that time I checked the newbie thread, it said that UKPC was banned by DVLA, so I decided to ignore the ticket.

The second ticket I got was a few weeks later, it was a similar scenario, the car parked next to me was too close to my parking space, if I park my car within the marked bay there will be no space left for the driver to get into his/her car, I mean no space at all. I parked mine half in my space and half in the one right next to me to leave some space for the driver to get into his/her car. Another window ticket issued next morning on 9 Nov. I did not know that UKPC had their power back to get my details, so I throw the ticket in the bin.

Then I get my third ticket last Saturday, as I forgot to display my permit.:( I didn't threw it away this time, but I stupidly lost it.

As I saw one thread mentioned that UKPC have no rights to issue tickets for homeowner, does it apply to tenants as well?

Could anyone kindly tell me what should I do now? Should I still complain the first ticket at all? for the other two tickets should I just wait for the NTK?

Thank you very much.

---

Thank you so much for your reply.

I didn't get any NTK yet.

I just checked the contract with the landlord it did not mention parking.
However, there's a information package from my landlord, one of them looks like a file copy, I am not sure what kind of document it is as there are only a few sections included not the whole document , one section I quote :
3.2 Your rights over the estate

You and those authorised by you have the following rights over the estate for the benefit of your apartment:

a) to drive over the estate road as a means of getting to and from the building using vehicles (but no right to park) and

b) to use the pedestrian areas as a means of getting to and from the building on foot

We or the Management Company may control the use of the estate roads and pedestrian areas by way of gates or security barrier as long as you are provided with keys or other appropriate means of passing through them.

c)You have a right to park one private roadworthy car only in car parking space or each of them as set out in the lease deed.

d) This right is personal to you and lasts only while you are tenant of your apartment. The right automatically passes to each future tenant of your apartment. You must not allow the space to be used by anyone who is not living in or visiting your apartment.

e) You must keep the car parking space clean.

f) The following are prohibited in the car park:

refuelling(except in emergency)
vehicle repairs(except in emergency)
vehicle maintenance

g) You have the right to use the communal areas (other than the car parking spaces unless rights to do so are expressly granted and those parts of the communal areas falling within individual plots or the blue edging on the plan) for the purposes for which they are designed.

It did not mention UKPC at all.

So I shall just wait for the NTK and then appeal?

They do issue tickets in the morning 7am, and their issue time and first seen time is always the same.

Can a tenant sue them for trespassing?

---

I received one NTK on 09/12/2015 (dated on NTK) for the Parking Charge issued on 09/11/2015.

Thanks again.

catfunt

I cant see any mention of you having received any NtK above. Have you received one for the first ticket? If you have, then appeal.

Appeal each ticket separately if you get more than one NtK, as you would be appealing each one to POPLA individually.

Does the terms of the lease/tenancy make any mention of parking?
Any lease terms should trump any made-up rules "imposed" by a cowboy PPC.

The_Deep

I would not be too concerned about UKPC, they are a busted flush.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

Beavis does not apply to "own space" tickets and you can trounce themat PoPLA with contract, GPEOL, and probably signs, read Dantel San's thread and this one.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

yy2uker

catfunt wrote: »

I cant see any mention of you having received any NtK above. Have you received one for the first ticket? If you have, then appeal.

Appeal each ticket separately if you get more than one NtK, as you would be appealing each one to POPLA individually.

Does the terms of the lease/tenancy make any mention of parking?
Any lease terms should trump any made-up rules "imposed" by a cowboy PPC.

The_Deep wrote: »

I would not be too concerned about UKPC, they are a busted flush.



Beavis does not apply to "own space" tickets and you can trounce themat PoPLA with contract, GPEOL, and probably signs, read Dantel San's thread and this one.

Thank you so much for your reply.

I didn't get any NTK yet.

I just checked the contract with the landlord it did not mention parking.
However, there's a information package from my landlord, one of them looks like a file copy, I am not sure what kind of document it is as there are only a few sections included not the whole document , one section I quote :
3.2 Your rights over the estate

You and those authorised by you have the following rights over the estate for the benefit of your apartment:

a) to drive over the estate road as a means of getting to and from the building using vehicles (but no right to park) and

b) to use the pedestrian areas as a means of getting to and from the building on foot

We or the Management Company may control the use of the estate roads and pedestrian areas by way of gates or security barrier as long as you are provided with keys or other appropriate means of passing through them.

c)You have a right to park one private roadworthy car only in car parking space or each of them as set out in the lease deed.

d) This right is personal to you and lasts only while you are tenant of your apartment. The right automatically passes to each future tenant of your apartment. You must not allow the space to be used by anyone who is not living in or visiting your apartment.

e) You must keep the car parking space clean.

f) The following are prohibited in the car park:

refuelling(except in emergency)
vehicle repairs(except in emergency)
vehicle maintenance

g) You have the right to use the communal areas (other than the car parking spaces unless rights to do so are expressly granted and those parts of the communal areas falling within individual plots or the blue edging on the plan) for the purposes for which they are designed.

It did not mention UKPC at all.

So I shall just wait for the NTK and then appeal?

They do issue tickets in the morning 7am, and their issue time and first seen time is always the same.

Can a tenant sue them for trespassing?

Thanks again.

patman99

So, no mention of the need to display a permit then ?.

That's good news as it defeats their argument completely.
If they send you a NTK (notice to keeper), then appeal using the info in the 'stickies' at the top of the 'parking tickets' thread.

UKPC will either back-off, or reject your appeal and give you a POPLA code which you can then use to create an appeal based on the 'lease trumps PPC' argument.

yy2uker

I have now recieved the NTK(dated 09/12/2015) for the second PCN (09/11/2015), it states 'Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space' and demanding £90.

After searching from the forum this is what I am going to send to them (copied from 4consumerrights's post).


As the registered keeper of (reg number), I'm in receipt of your notice to keeper invoice and deny any liabilty to pay the parking charge.

The keeper rejects that you have authority to issue these invoices on the parking bay where the vehicle was parked, as I am the leaseholder of the property. I have not signed any such document that allows you to access my private land, and I revoke any permission you think you have. This furthermore constitutes an act of trespass on my private property and any further pursuance of this charge will result in a joint claim for damages and harassment being sought against UKPC and the management company.

The amount charged does not reflect your genuine pre-estimate of loss, as I don't charge to park vehicles in my own private property and the signage is not compliant with the BPA code of practice!

I trust that this now clarifies the situation regarding the above matter and look forward to receiving your written confirmation of cancellation by return for this charge. As any permission to issue parking charges has been revoked by myself as the property owner, please now ensure that my registration number is noted on your list so that no further parking charges are issued.

Should you fail to cancel this charge and reject this appeal on the legal points listed above, then by all means send me a POPLA code for appealing the charge and face the legal consequences of any further action against you.

I am also considering to send the following but not sure if it will fit my situation, I did not get any debt recovery letter yet.

it was written by Coupon-mad (Thank you!),

Dear UKPC, Debt Recovery Plus (and aliases of DRP including but not limited to Zenith and PCS) and < property management company >,

LETTER BEFORE CLAIM AND FORMAL WARNING TO CEASE AND DESIST WITH HARASSMENT

This is not an appeal

I am the leasehold owner of the property <property address> and this communication relates to vehicle <registration number(s), as many as you wish to 'exempt'> and to any other relevant vehicles I may notify <property management company> about in the future.

The purpose of this letter is to warn all recipients of potential court action and to clearly instruct UKPC and its agents to cease and desist with the following behaviour, which I consider serious, persistent and unwarranted harassment:

- placing 'Parking Charge Notices' (or other similarly named) tickets on or in the vicinity of the above vehicle
- placing 'Parking Charge Notices' (or other similarly named) tickets on or in the vicinity of any vehicle connected to me or my property at the above address
- sending letters or making any further contact with me or my household, regarding PCNs/tickets/charges relating to any vehicles connected to my property.
- threatening court action over the above matters.

I have been subjected over many months to the detriment of receiving repeated intimidating letters (over 35 at last count) from UKPC and your agents (Debt Recovery Plus and Zenith Collections) demanding payment of parking charges received while my vehicle was parked at my own property. I dispute and deny all charges and in good faith, so far in my own time, I have attempted to resolve this ongoing issue on many occasions. UKPC will be aware that I have attempted to address the issue by:

- speaking with UKPC and <property management company> about this groundless intimidation which I view as attempting to obtain money with menaces. My protests were ignored and dismissed and more letters followed.
- writing letters in response to the invoices and threats.
- challenging some of UKPC's unsolicited invoices, the latest of which was cancelled by UKPC after a minimal appeal one-liner from me, which suggests UKPC are aware they have no grounds to proceed.
- appealing to POPLA one recent ticket as a 'test case' so that UKPC understand that their charge is unwarranted. POPLA found in my favour.

By virtue of the fact that your charges at this car park have been found by the independent dispute resolution service for the private parking industry (POPLA) as 'not representing a genuine pre-estimate of loss' it follows that the PCNs are non-compliant and unenforceable. Further, I contended in my POPLA appeal that UKPC has no legal title in the land, nor a BPA-compliant landowner contract that assigns any right to pursue these charges through the courts in your own name. UKPC produced no evidence to the contrary which once again, renders the PCNs non-compliant and unenforceable. In other words, an unwarranted threat.

UKPC will also be familiar with the small claim case Davey v UKPC, (January 2013) where Mr Roger Davey was forced to take out an injunction against UKPC, who issued tickets on a private development in Winchester where Mr Davey lived, demanding £100.00 for each alleged 'breach'. Despite warnings from Mr Davey, UKPC continued to ticket his vehicles and you were served with an injunction and successfully sued for trespass, having to pay Mr Davey's substantial costs.

I find myself in a similar position and following the recent swiftly-cancelled 'ticket' I am certain that UKPC realise you have no lawful cause of action. As you are aware, I have neither accepted nor recognised any 'permit scheme' nor signed any paperwork regarding UKPC. Nor does my leasehold title deed of ownership mention anything to do with UKPC nor indeed does it mention any firm rejoicing in the occupational title of a 'parking management company'.

There is no legal contract between myself and UKPC and as a property owner I have a right to peaceful enjoyment for myself and my household and a reasonable expectation that my visitors will not be harassed and intimidated by a third party aggressive ticketer.

Having taken advice regarding this infuriating matter I am now issuing this, my formal warning, instructing you and your agents to cease and desist with the above behaviours. Your actions - and that of your agents DRP/Zenith/PCS - have become a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009).

I am copying in <property management company> to formally notify you that you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents, in this case UKPC. I have no direct requirements for <property management company> to 'cease and desist' with their own normal contact with me, of course, but under the Practice Direction I am required to ensure you are now informed about your legal position due to the actions of your agents.

All Above Parties: Take Formal Note
If I have cause to contact UKPC or their agents or <property management company> about any 'parking ticket' issue from now onwards, including handling any letters, or any contact whatsoever about any PCN on any vehicle connected to my household or visiting my property, I may seek an injunction and may sue for damages for distress caused by the tort against persons (and crime) of harassment.

In addition, I will begin to invoice UKPC (with all parties being jointly and severally liable) on a monthly basis for my time in dealing with these matters after you receive this letter, and for the avoidance of doubt, at least from 20th January onwards. My time will be charged at the appropriate court rate which currently stands at £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of injunctions, formal notices, legal fees, court expenses and other disbursements, costs and interest. Damages for distress may be claimed following legal advice, at whatever sum a Judge deems warranted under the circumstances of the case.

By continuing to pursue me, you (all parties) agree to pay these costs on a monthly basis and in the event of any court claim. The only exempt (non-charged) contact will be one communication from each party acknowledging this Letter before Claim and one Formal Response or Undertaking to cancel all charges/cease all debt collection activity/remove my data from debt collection databases (as appropriate) from each party, to be served to me by the end of January 2014 only.

Yours faithfully,


< name – printed not signed>

CC: UKPC
Debt Recovery Plus
<management company>
Zenith Collections



Thank you for all your help.

Half_way

you should also include the management company who took on the ppc I'm this as well.
another question, are you still displaying a permit?

yy2uker

I will do, I am not sure what is the name of the management company at all. I may need to ask the landlord. Yes, most time I display the permit. As the car is not registered at the flat, it is registered at the address of my own home. Does it affect my appeal, or should I not mention it at all?

Thank you

yy2uker

Dear All I am reporting back for my first ticket,

UKPC did not produce a POPLA code then I get a debt collection letter. Complaint to DVLA, BPA.

DVLA's attitude is like they dont care.

BPA is clearly on UKPC side, they even help them to lie.

I send the format letter 'letter before claim' to UKPC DRP and management company, DRP replied a format letter as well basically they are saying they want the bloody money, we dont care if you challenge us or not.

advice for people who are blackmailed by UKPC

do chase them for the popla letter, they pretend they send them, but you missed the opportunity to challenge it. I have to threaten them I will report them to DVLA if they dont send it to me, then they send the code in two days.

Here's the reply email from DRP

Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).



The time to challenge the charge has now expired and therefore access to the Independent Appeals Service (if applicable) is no longer available.

However, in order to resolve this matter, I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable.


My findings

The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. Those signs state that all vehicles must be parked correctly within a marked bay.

On the date in question, the vehicle was not parked correctly within a marked bay and a PCN was correctly and legitimately issued as a result.

Legal basis



The claim in question is based in contract law. When you parked your vehicle on the site in question, you contractually agreed to abide by the terms and conditions attached to that site. As stated, these terms and conditions are adequately displayed on signage at the site. If you did not wish to abide by these terms and conditions, you were under no obligation to park on the property in question.


I draw your attention to the decision made by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye vs Beavis [2015]. The Supreme Court ruled that the charge appealed did not contravene the penalty rule or the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and was therefore enforceable.


The charge in that case was ruled not to be a penalty as both ParkingEye and the landowners had a legitimate interest in charging motorists who contravene parking restrictions, which extended beyond the recovery of any loss. The interest of the landowners was the provision and efficient management of parking. The interest of ParkingEye was in income from the charge, which met the running costs of a legitimate scheme plus a profit margin. Further, the charge was neither extravagant nor unconscionable, having regard to the practices around the United Kingdom and taking into account the use of the particular car park and the clear wording of the signs.


Please see this link for a summary of the Judgment:


https://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk/debtor/

Harassment

Harassment has been referred to and therefore I feel obliged to point out that under S1(3)(c) of The Harassment Act 1997, a course of conduct that someone alleges to be harassment will not be deemed so if the person who pursued it shows that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

Under the circumstances our course of action has been entirely reasonable and in no way reaches the high threshold of harassment. Our company has legitimately pursued recompense for a breach of the terms and conditions attached to our client’s site.


What you need to do now

Please ensure that £127.50 is paid by 13/04/2016. Payment can be made online or by phone. Go to https://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk or phone 0208 234 6775. You can find full details of how to pay on the reverse of the letter(s) sent.



What will happen if you do not pay what you owe

If the amount is not paid by the date shown above, we will recommend to our client that court action be taken by them to recover the outstanding balance.


What if you do not agree

Although any correspondence that does not provide further evidence will be noted and retained, I cannot guarantee that we will reply to it.


Payment Methods

Online Payment: https://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk/pay

Telephone Payment: Ring 0208 234 6775

Bank Transfer: Quote your reference number to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd, Royal Bank Of Scotland, Sort Code 16-00-01, Account Number 20891316

Cheques/Postal Orders: Should be posted to the address below, made payable to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd. Please write your reference number on the back.

Kind Regards

Fruitcake

We neither want nor need to see the email from DRP. It is irrelevant.

If you have a PoPLA code you should use it. If you have issued a letter before claim, you should take them to court. There was no point in sending them a threat if you were not going to carry it out.

Please read this and sign the petition as well as telling everyone you know about this scam and the fraudulent behaviour of UKPC. Social media, local and national press, and your MP should be told.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5365003

Have you complained to your landlord that you are being harasses and threatened by these scammers? Have you complained to the management association and told them about the fraudulent behaviour of the company they have employed?

You need to appeal to PoPLA for each and every ticket you get, but if you get any more, appeal before you get the NTK as explained in the NEWBIES thread.

yy2uker

Decision Successful

Assessor summary of operator case

The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the basis the appellant did not display a valid permit.

Assessor summary of your case
The appellant states the notice is not complaint with PoFA 2012. The appellant states the signage is not adequate. The appellant states the operator did not provide a grace period on arrival to the site. The appellant states the operator does not have landowner authority to pursue charges. The appellant stated the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the basis the appellant did not display a valid permit. The appellant states the operator does not have landowner authority to pursue charges. Section 7 of the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice requires operators to own the land or to have written authority from the landowner to operate on the land. As the operator has failed to provide any evidence in response to this ground of appeal, it has failed to prove that it has the required authority to operate on the land in question. I note the appellant has raised other grounds of appeal. However, I will not consider any further grounds as they will have no bearing on my decision.