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Npower Back Billing Dispute
I'm just about to throw in the towel on a dispute I've had with Npower since 2012, but I thought I'd ask for some valuable opinions here before doing anything irreversible.
It might be a bit technical and long winded, in advance I thank whoever can be asked to read the whole thing
First, Npower failed to send me a bill from October 2012 to February 2015. During that period they tried a couple of times to bill me all the way back to October 2012, but each time I wave the Back Billing Rule from the Code of Practice of Accurate Bill at them, and finally (but not after some serious arguing over the phone), they saw some sense and applied a reduction to a bill dated 04.02.2015.
At this stage, I'm well aware that I could have just left it there as I could count myself lucky that Npower's blunder gifted me and my family nearly a year and half worth of free energy....basically over 2 grand, sweet...
...but I didn't, and here is why: the Back Billing Rule states very clearly that, if providers are at fault for not sending an accurate bill, they shall not seek payment for energy used beyond 12 months prior to the issue date of the first correct bill.
That means that the 04.02.2015 bill that they sent me should not have charged me for energy used prior to the 04.02.2014.
But, they billed me for energy used all the way to 27.01.2014. That's 12 months + 8 days, and according to the Back Billing Rule, they are not entitled to charge me for those 8 extra days.
After serious consideration, I decided to hold them accountable for this mistake, because if they charge an extra 8 days here and there every time they're forced to apply the Back Billing Rule, that could soon amount to a lot of money they're not entitled to. Plus, they signed up to this Code, it its their responsibility to apply it to the letter, and if they don't, someone should call them up on it.
So I told them that, in my opinion, the 04.02.2015 bill was inaccurate in that it demonstrably did not apply the Back Billing Rule correctly.
...and I told them that, to this day, I was still waiting for my first correct bill, so I reiterated my request to be sent an accurate bill which does not seek payment from the issue date of the bill.
Instead of sorting the issue right there and then, they told me to open a new complain.... and I think you can see where this is going.
From February until July, they tried every trick under the sun (such as closing the complain without notifying me...twice) to avoid having to apply further reduction. I've been on the phone with them a gazillion times, every time reminding them of their duty to send me a bill that does not charge me beyond 12 months from the issue date, and that it was their problem if every day that goes by loses them money.
One of the trick they tried was very sly: in May, they finally offered to withdraw the charges for the extra 8 days that were billed on the 04.02.2015 (£31.06), and sent me a bill which withdrew those charges. Again, I could have left it there, but it was Npower's choice to have fought it for so long, so I thought they should bear the responsability of their own incompetence/dishonesty.
So, and I hope you can follow me there: I told them that to that day (May 2015), I was still waiting for my first correct bill since October 2012 (since the 04.02.15 was inaccurate in that it charged me for 8 days too many, according to the Back Billing Rule). Considering this, I told them it was very clear that their duty, as set out in the Code of Practice for Accurate Bills, was to send me a bill that would not charge me beyond 12 months from the issue date (in this case May 2014)...and certainly not to go and correct a 3 and a half months old inaccurate bill. Obviously, at that stage, offering me 8 days of free energy was always going to be a lot cheaper for them than applying a further write off of 3 and half months. I thought this was a clear cut attempt to avoid fulfilling their duty to apply the Back Billing Rule, so I declined their offer and reiterated once again my request to be sent a bill which does not blah blah blah...
The last thing they tried before the deadlock letter, was to offer me £50 "as a good will gesture".
But again, for them it was obviously a lot cheaper to give me £50 to shut up than to apply the Back Billing Rule properly, so I told them this would not do.
Finally came the deadlock letter, and with that, finally I could go to the Ombudsman (July 2015).
Interesting to note, in the deadlock letter, Npower acknowledges that they did not billed my account correctly between October 2012 and May 2015 (the bill which withdrew the extra 8 days from the Feb bill). I submitted to the Ombudsman that the May 2015 bill was also inaccurate, in that it seeked payment all the way to February 2014, well beyond 12 months.
I told the Ombudsman that I wanted Npower to follow the Back Billing Rule to the letter, and to withdraw charges for energy used beyond 12 month prior to the issue date of the first correct bill, which I was still waiting for.
The first decision from the Ombudsman came a few weeks later (Sept 2015), I was denied.
Their findings stated that, for the 04.02.2015, Npower had applied a reduction "in line with the UK Code of Practice for Accurate Bills", and also that the £50 good will gesture constituted a generous award.
I appealed under the grounds that their findings contained "significant errors in the facts which makes a material difference".
I disputed that Npower had applied a reduction "in line with the UK Code of Practice for Accurate Bills". In fact, it was demonstrably out of line. I told the Ombudsman that the Code of Practice does not talk about a little wiggle room of a few days for the 12 months prior to the issue date of the bill, it is very clearly and striclty 12 months, no more no less. I also disputed that the £50 gesture constituted a generous award, as this amount pales in comparaison to the further write off they should have applied under the Back Billing Rule.
So, my case was reviewed, I was told it would take a couple of weeks at most, but again...it took forever.
Finally, last week I wrote to them to enquire about the progress of the investigation, and they just replied yesterday.
Again, I was denied, and now they tell me all possibilities of appeal with the Ombudsman are exhausted.
The email is quite long, most of it is completely irrelevant and sometimes downright inaccurate, but one new argument stands out, which had not been raised before (certainly not by Npower), and at this stage, seems to me to indicate I may have lost this!:
"the failure to apply the Code does not make a bill inaccurate. The accuracy of an energy bill is determined by billing an account correctly using actual meter readings, or accurate estimates in the absence of actual readings. Whether the Code has been applied or not at that given time, would not constitute an inaccurate bill."
!
...which was the whole point of the dispute. I was submitting that the fact the Npower did not apply the Back Billing Rule properly on my 04.02.15 bill rendered that bill inaccurate, but the Ombudsman says this is not the case. I made a little bit of research to find any legislation that would support the Ombudsman's point, but so far I haven't found any.
So, what do you think, is this a sound argument!? Is there any legislation to back it up!? If not, is it worth pursuing this further!? I am a little bit tired of this whole thing to be honest...any opinions welcome, don't hesitate to tell me to suck it up if you really think I should, I can take it :-)
Thanks for your time.
As a side note, just to be clear that I am not trying to merely avoid payment (although I won't lie I clearly have an interest for in this), I offered Npower to settle the whole bill at once in March 2015 as a token that this dispute is not an attempt to avoid or delay payment, but I made clear that that would not end the dispute. For some obscure reason, they only took £999.99 from my card. And I am now paying the outstanding amount every month. I could pay them the whole thing in one go...but I don't think they deserve it.
It might be a bit technical and long winded, in advance I thank whoever can be asked to read the whole thing
First, Npower failed to send me a bill from October 2012 to February 2015. During that period they tried a couple of times to bill me all the way back to October 2012, but each time I wave the Back Billing Rule from the Code of Practice of Accurate Bill at them, and finally (but not after some serious arguing over the phone), they saw some sense and applied a reduction to a bill dated 04.02.2015.
At this stage, I'm well aware that I could have just left it there as I could count myself lucky that Npower's blunder gifted me and my family nearly a year and half worth of free energy....basically over 2 grand, sweet...
...but I didn't, and here is why: the Back Billing Rule states very clearly that, if providers are at fault for not sending an accurate bill, they shall not seek payment for energy used beyond 12 months prior to the issue date of the first correct bill.
That means that the 04.02.2015 bill that they sent me should not have charged me for energy used prior to the 04.02.2014.
But, they billed me for energy used all the way to 27.01.2014. That's 12 months + 8 days, and according to the Back Billing Rule, they are not entitled to charge me for those 8 extra days.
After serious consideration, I decided to hold them accountable for this mistake, because if they charge an extra 8 days here and there every time they're forced to apply the Back Billing Rule, that could soon amount to a lot of money they're not entitled to. Plus, they signed up to this Code, it its their responsibility to apply it to the letter, and if they don't, someone should call them up on it.
So I told them that, in my opinion, the 04.02.2015 bill was inaccurate in that it demonstrably did not apply the Back Billing Rule correctly.
...and I told them that, to this day, I was still waiting for my first correct bill, so I reiterated my request to be sent an accurate bill which does not seek payment from the issue date of the bill.
Instead of sorting the issue right there and then, they told me to open a new complain.... and I think you can see where this is going.
From February until July, they tried every trick under the sun (such as closing the complain without notifying me...twice) to avoid having to apply further reduction. I've been on the phone with them a gazillion times, every time reminding them of their duty to send me a bill that does not charge me beyond 12 months from the issue date, and that it was their problem if every day that goes by loses them money.
One of the trick they tried was very sly: in May, they finally offered to withdraw the charges for the extra 8 days that were billed on the 04.02.2015 (£31.06), and sent me a bill which withdrew those charges. Again, I could have left it there, but it was Npower's choice to have fought it for so long, so I thought they should bear the responsability of their own incompetence/dishonesty.
So, and I hope you can follow me there: I told them that to that day (May 2015), I was still waiting for my first correct bill since October 2012 (since the 04.02.15 was inaccurate in that it charged me for 8 days too many, according to the Back Billing Rule). Considering this, I told them it was very clear that their duty, as set out in the Code of Practice for Accurate Bills, was to send me a bill that would not charge me beyond 12 months from the issue date (in this case May 2014)...and certainly not to go and correct a 3 and a half months old inaccurate bill. Obviously, at that stage, offering me 8 days of free energy was always going to be a lot cheaper for them than applying a further write off of 3 and half months. I thought this was a clear cut attempt to avoid fulfilling their duty to apply the Back Billing Rule, so I declined their offer and reiterated once again my request to be sent a bill which does not blah blah blah...
The last thing they tried before the deadlock letter, was to offer me £50 "as a good will gesture".
But again, for them it was obviously a lot cheaper to give me £50 to shut up than to apply the Back Billing Rule properly, so I told them this would not do.
Finally came the deadlock letter, and with that, finally I could go to the Ombudsman (July 2015).
Interesting to note, in the deadlock letter, Npower acknowledges that they did not billed my account correctly between October 2012 and May 2015 (the bill which withdrew the extra 8 days from the Feb bill). I submitted to the Ombudsman that the May 2015 bill was also inaccurate, in that it seeked payment all the way to February 2014, well beyond 12 months.
I told the Ombudsman that I wanted Npower to follow the Back Billing Rule to the letter, and to withdraw charges for energy used beyond 12 month prior to the issue date of the first correct bill, which I was still waiting for.
The first decision from the Ombudsman came a few weeks later (Sept 2015), I was denied.
Their findings stated that, for the 04.02.2015, Npower had applied a reduction "in line with the UK Code of Practice for Accurate Bills", and also that the £50 good will gesture constituted a generous award.
I appealed under the grounds that their findings contained "significant errors in the facts which makes a material difference".
I disputed that Npower had applied a reduction "in line with the UK Code of Practice for Accurate Bills". In fact, it was demonstrably out of line. I told the Ombudsman that the Code of Practice does not talk about a little wiggle room of a few days for the 12 months prior to the issue date of the bill, it is very clearly and striclty 12 months, no more no less. I also disputed that the £50 gesture constituted a generous award, as this amount pales in comparaison to the further write off they should have applied under the Back Billing Rule.
So, my case was reviewed, I was told it would take a couple of weeks at most, but again...it took forever.
Finally, last week I wrote to them to enquire about the progress of the investigation, and they just replied yesterday.
Again, I was denied, and now they tell me all possibilities of appeal with the Ombudsman are exhausted.
The email is quite long, most of it is completely irrelevant and sometimes downright inaccurate, but one new argument stands out, which had not been raised before (certainly not by Npower), and at this stage, seems to me to indicate I may have lost this!:
"the failure to apply the Code does not make a bill inaccurate. The accuracy of an energy bill is determined by billing an account correctly using actual meter readings, or accurate estimates in the absence of actual readings. Whether the Code has been applied or not at that given time, would not constitute an inaccurate bill."
!
...which was the whole point of the dispute. I was submitting that the fact the Npower did not apply the Back Billing Rule properly on my 04.02.15 bill rendered that bill inaccurate, but the Ombudsman says this is not the case. I made a little bit of research to find any legislation that would support the Ombudsman's point, but so far I haven't found any.
So, what do you think, is this a sound argument!? Is there any legislation to back it up!? If not, is it worth pursuing this further!? I am a little bit tired of this whole thing to be honest...any opinions welcome, don't hesitate to tell me to suck it up if you really think I should, I can take it :-)
Thanks for your time.
As a side note, just to be clear that I am not trying to merely avoid payment (although I won't lie I clearly have an interest for in this), I offered Npower to settle the whole bill at once in March 2015 as a token that this dispute is not an attempt to avoid or delay payment, but I made clear that that would not end the dispute. For some obscure reason, they only took £999.99 from my card. And I am now paying the outstanding amount every month. I could pay them the whole thing in one go...but I don't think they deserve it.
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Comments
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ok i'll just try the one bump.0
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The post is far to long winded .
Bullet points and someone may help . I got lost halfway down the post .0 -
My honest advice to you, is to pay them.
I doubt there is any specific legislation on what constitutes an accurate bill. Your assertion that it has to apply to the letter of the back billing code, and the ombudsman that it has to use accurate meter readings, are obviously some way apart.
Continued failure to pay would undoubtedly lead down the route of a court hearing, where a judge would apply a reasonableness test. Can anyone predict this? No. But I would say npower offering a £50 gesture, when 8 days of energy for most people is around £25 is more than fair.
From a moral perspective, you've had £2k free of charge, and you're quibbling over a paltry amount in what appears to be an attempt to dodge payment, despite your claims otherwise. It all seems pathetic, but what do I know!0 -
First, Npower failed to send me a bill from October 2012 to February 2015.
I'm well aware that I could have just left it there as I could count myself lucky that Npower's blunder gifted me and my family nearly a year and half worth of free energy....basically over 2 grand, sweet...
For someone who is apparently such a stickler for getting things correct, it is a pity you didn't apply the same diligence to get a bill sent from October 2012 to February 2015, but of course you wouldn't have gained £2,000!
The tone of your post indicates that you are holding the moral high ground and IMO you ain't!0 -
Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »My honest advice to you, is to pay them.
I doubt there is any specific legislation on what constitutes an accurate bill. Your assertion that it has to apply to the letter of the back billing code, and the ombudsman that it has to use accurate meter readings, are obviously some way apart.
Continued failure to pay would undoubtedly lead down the route of a court hearing, where a judge would apply a reasonableness test. Can anyone predict this? No. But I would say npower offering a £50 gesture, when 8 days of energy for most people is around £25 is more than fair.
OK thanks for taking the time to read the whole thing.
Failure to pay won't be a issue as Npower and I have already arranged a monthly plan.
The question was mainly whether it would be a wise move on my part to give up the dispute, which really is what I was about to do.
Clearly you say "yes", and indeed I understand that if the legislation is blurry on what constitutes an accurate bill, then that's the end of it really. I was just curious to hear other people's perspective, anyway thanks :-)0 -
For someone who is apparently such a stickler for getting things correct, it is a pity you didn't apply the same diligence to get a bill sent from October 2012 to February 2015, but of course you wouldn't have gained £2,000!
The tone of your post indicates that you are holding the moral high ground and IMO you ain't!
OK well my original post was long enough as it was without me adding everything that happened in details between October 2012 and February 2015 (another VERY long story...).
But I did in fact call them to request an accurate bill multiple times during that period, providing them with up-to-date meter readings every time and allowing agents to take meter readings when they visited.
...which is why they had to apply the Back Billing rule in the end (even though they did resist it...a lot), because a condition of the application of the back billing rule is that you take every reasonnable measure to be sent an accurate bill, which I'm pretty confident I did.
As you may know, during this period Npower had a massive billing fiasco and a huge number of customers experienced this, I was one of them.0 -
I'm just about to throw in the towel on a dispute I've had with Npower since 2012, but I thought I'd ask for some valuable opinions here before doing anything irreversible
...
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My disclosure: I am a very unhappy ex customer of npower.
I think the way the Ombudsman will be looking at this is really just to discount your point as being too technical, and beyond the spirit of the back billing code. Even if you are technically correct there is really nothing much you can do if the Ombudsman ignores or misses your point in their final ruling other than reject their finding and go down the legal route. However the legal route I suspect will not be any more sympathetic.
However I wish you all the best. After all the trouble npower have put me to over a year or two, I am glad to see someone seems to be making life a bit difficult for them.
However I think you should call it a day after the Ombudsman's final word on the matter.0 -
Thanks naedanger, I think that time has come as well. The next step would have to be the legal route, and I am under the impression that the Back Billing Rule isn't actually legally binding, which could seriously backfire on me when I think of it.0
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Thanks naedanger, I think that time has come as well. The next step would have to be the legal route, and I am under the impression that the Back Billing Rule isn't actually legally binding, which could seriously backfire on me when I think of it.
I believe there is a back billing principle that Ofgem directed all suppliers to follow. However I doubt you technical argument would work against a principle. (The backing billing code is how some companies are choosing to implement the principle.)
Also my view is if you employ a very technical point then a small claim court will be open to hearing equally technical arguments against your point.0 -
The backbill policy is a voluntary code, not a law as they have discounted the extra 8 days energy the court will see a very dim view on you wasting there time. Don't forget they can counter sue for costs, Ken their solicitor is very used to game playersDon't put your trust into an Experian score - it is not a number any bank will ever use & it is generally a waste of money to purchase it. They are also selling you insurance you dont need.0
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